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Incident: Hawaiian B717 at Kahului on Feb 1st 2017, near collision on takeoff with Cessna taking off without clearance
A Hawaiian Airlines Boeing 717-200, registration N478HA performing flight HA-155 from Kahului,HI to Honolulu,HI (USA) with 125 passengers and 5 crew, was in the initial climb out of Kahului's runway 02. A Cessna Caravan departed Kahului's runway 05 at the same time, however, without clearance. (avherald.com) More...
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There is another issue to be noted here: According to the ICAO rules, a takeoff clearance must also contain the runway designator, if more then one runway is in use. The runway designator has also to be repeated by the pilot. Consequently, there are two indications to distinguish which aircraft was meant. Omitting the runway-designator within the takeoff-clearance by the Tower would be a poor handling, setting power for takeoff based only on a callsign-fragment is a very poor handling in sure
The view is clearly blocked by the terminal. Right?
100% blocked
If you're not sure, it costs nothing to ask.
"Tower, XX5, say again?", or,
"Tower, XX5, was that clearance for me?"
you might (briefly) feel like a n00b, but you'll live to fly another day.
"Tower, XX5, say again?", or,
"Tower, XX5, was that clearance for me?"
you might (briefly) feel like a n00b, but you'll live to fly another day.
It just baffles me that with today's technology, that ATC and pilots still use the ancient method of communication that allows them to 'walk over' each other.
It is perfectly clear that this can lead to assuptions that those involved will hear what they expect to hear instead of what WAS said.
The largest disaster between the collision of two 747s at the fog bound runway at Tenerife, may have been avoided, if that 4second 'walk over' in communication with ATC did not exist and everyone could hear everybody speaking, that MAY have been the break in the link that could have avoided the crash.
That was 40 years ago! And they are STILL using the same communication methods? Might as well get them to use morse-code!
It is perfectly clear that this can lead to assuptions that those involved will hear what they expect to hear instead of what WAS said.
The largest disaster between the collision of two 747s at the fog bound runway at Tenerife, may have been avoided, if that 4second 'walk over' in communication with ATC did not exist and everyone could hear everybody speaking, that MAY have been the break in the link that could have avoided the crash.
That was 40 years ago! And they are STILL using the same communication methods? Might as well get them to use morse-code!
I think that while walking over each other was a factor Tenerife was a bit more complicated than that. If memory serves me correctly the KLM CVR transcript appears to imply the right seat and the engineer both realized they did not have clearance and it was the left seat who initiated the roll even after they cautioned him. Also the Papa had missed his exit in the fog and their CVR transcript seemed to indicate some kidding around about the correct one to take. It might also appear that the KLM was worried about exceeding duty hours and wanted to get the bird home for the next day's turn. He also had contributed to the congestion by partially blocking the taxiway/hard stand while refueing.
Correct. The captain flying for KLM was one of their most experienced captains. The right seat was fairly inexperienced and reluctant to contradict him.
The captain was also feeling pressure to get to their destination because of duty day remaining.
The captain was also feeling pressure to get to their destination because of duty day remaining.
