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JetBlue Flight Grounded After Pilot Loses His Gun

eklendi
 
A JetBlue flight from JFK to Pittsburgh was grounded yesterday because the pilot lost his bag containing his TSA-issued firearm. Turns out a passenger on another flight picked it up by mistake. Steven Slater never would have done that. (www.upi.com) Daha Fazlası...

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kristyw
Kristy Wheless 0
Maybe a ribbon or zebra striped bag is in order!
nugget
David McNett 0
Thats a great idea, Kristy!
amahran
amahran 0
damn, i wish passengers could take firearms with tthem into the plane, so if someone tries to act smart and attempt to terrorize, we could easily subdue him
spdmrcht
Ron Lorenz 0
Strike 2 for JetBlue!
RobSJC
Hey Ron,, This was strike # 3 .... But sounds more like the fault of the passenger, NOT the co-pilot ... Are we suppose to be forced to carry our bags .. 24/7 ? Why didn't TSA, drill the person who took his bag ??

Jet Blue incidents:

Emergency Chute Flight attendant, Ticket Agent Bribe, Co-Pilot missing bag
homedepo20
Ronnie Mc 0
Still one of the best airlines!
SPEEDY2529
MAURO PALMA 0
Ah the right to bear arms!! We should all carry one on
vtdl
vtdl 0
What? After this lady realized she took someone else's bag, she put on an "empty seat"? Why did she tell the FA so it can be returned to its owner (whoever that might be)? I suspect the UPI story is unclear. Nobody can be that irresponsible (yea, right?)
wdhearrell
wdhearrell 0
I wonder what fees Jet Blue charged her for the carry on gun.
airclaxon1
Paul Claxon 0
He should have had it holstered !
RGibson259
Robert Gibson` 0
negligent ???
dmanuel
dmanuel 0
Perhaps pilots should transport their sidearms like Sky Marshalls do – on their person. Why they are required to transport them in a box seems rather inefficient! The TSA has taken the weapon away which raises a couple of issues: if the flight deck officer program is important/effective, wouldn’t this action indicate otherwise? What would the public reaction be, if this pilot needed the weapon, to protect passengers, on a future flight, but was deigned the ability to do so by a government agency?
spiritwarrior46
The gun was taken away by TSA for his neglience. TSA owns the gun and as a FDO he should have kept a better watch on his bags, especially the one with the gun in it. All responsible gun owners know that you have to keep your arms secure at all time and out of the reach of irresponsible people. She was just a irresponsible as he was to just leave the bag on an empty seat. That was really stupid!
RyanShort1
RyanShort1 0
Spiritwarrior46 - yeah, but the way they make you transport it is REALLY stupid. Sometimes you have to use your hands for stuff, like filling out paperwork, checking something in, etc... this isn't the first time that the stupid TSA rules have caused an issue with a weapon. Their "lock" mechanism has caused the gun to go off before, too.
RGibson259
Robert Gibson` 0
From their methods, it appears they make jobs for the unemployed and hand them a set of preceedures.
Trunkslammer
Trunkslammer 0
I did not note in the article that any efforts by the flight officer to alert the gate area / boarding passengers about his missing bag at the instance it was realized to be missing. I would expect that an announcement(s) in the gate and on the plane would have been made. Unclear to me how diligent the flight officer acted on his responsibilities - immediately. However, that is what you get from the press very often - something probably incomplete. IF there was no immediate attempt, in a delay to see if he could remedy his mistake (and it was a mistake by HIM), then there should be an investigation of his actions, definitely.
dbreslin
dbreslin 0
Pilot unions and FFDO's have fought the TSA, FBI and Secret Service on gun carriage policy since day one. We pointed out to them that every law enforcement agency in the world carries their gun on their person where they control it and is never subject to theft. No effort has been spared to change this policy. After 8 years of armed pilots - you can see the progress with the TSA is not responsive to common sense or reason. Blame the gov't (TSA) for this inane policy. We told them guns would be lost/stolen before the policy went into place. But they blame the pilot, not the policy. The bag pilots carry is a "non-descript" bag - meaning you're not supposed to know a gun is in the bag. Only the bad guys know - (they've figured it out already). Most passengers don't have a clue what the little bag pilots carry contains.
jjsifo
Agree with dmanuel, the gun should be on his person, the pilot properly evaluated and trained to use it as such,not with a lock or anything that he would have to fumble with when things get ugly,probably causing an unintended discharge.Terrorists do not give warnings or much time to take action.
dbreslin
dbreslin 0
Make no mistake - there WILL be an investigation. It's the TSA way. The pilot will probably be suspended from the program. Understand pilots volunteer to be Federal Flight Deck Officers. They take off work, train at their own expense, do recurrent training at an inconvenient locations every 6 months and are neither compensated for their efforts nor in most cases, appreciated for their trouble. For their efforts, they subject themselves to TSA discipline for any mistakes and have little liability protection in case of an incident. I think FFDO's would be satisfied if the public appreciated what they do on their behalf. Many thousands of pilots endure the bureaucratic hairball for one reason: Never Again will someone breach the cockpit of a US airliner and take it down. It is the last line of defense against a hostile takeover of an airliner. 99.9% deterrence, so authorities can concentrate on all the other things terrorists might be thinking of. FWIW, there is a protocol used in case of a lost weapon. For as long as the program has been in existence (2003) and all those pilots carrying weapons, the number of incidents with FFDO's is minuscule compared with general law enforcement. It's a tribute to professionalism of pilots and dedication to their mission.
solamich
solamich 0
As others have mentioned, if we (flight crew) were allowed to carry them holstered instead of in those asinine lock boxes this would not have happened.
bettiem
bettiem 0
I wasn't aware that the Wild West mentality prevailed in the US even on the flight deck. Thank you for the warning. What with that and what I read about the way in which the TSA behaves at US airports, I shall not ever fly on a US airline anywhere in the world, let along to or within the USA.

I love the United States and its people but this bloody gun nonsense and stupidly reactive manner of dealing with threat is unbearable. I fear that unless more intelligent and enlightened approaches are taken, it will lead to, rather than prevent or avoid, more cataclysmic disaster. It is such a shame and such a waste.
solamich
solamich 0
Well you should read up. 45 states have some sort of concealed carry laws in effect, and you didn't even know it. The "wild west" talking point is so old. Enjoy Amtrak.
dmanuel
dmanuel 0
Bettie,
I fly in/out of European airports and see more visual displays of rifle-type weapons, at the ready, by police/military types, where in U.S. airports the local police have holstered sidearms. The former gives me greater pause than the latter. So have you had much success in convincing any militant terrorists, through conversation, of the error of their ways?
spdmrcht
Ron Lorenz 0
Sweet Words Bettie, April 19-1779 Didn't work then
sure has Hell won't work Now!!
mapapete
Maybe he should carry his gun on a string through his sleeves with his mittens.
bettiem
bettiem 0
@dmanuel
You do have a point. It's been a while since I've been to UK or Europe but I do remember and know what you mean. Heavens, there have even been tanks at LHR. Even so, there is something obscene to me about handguns on a civil aircraft. It causes the same sick feeling in me as when helicopters ceased to be only rescue and mercy aircraft and were equipped to be weapons systems.
Notwithstanding the sarcasm and crossed logic of @solamich above:

1. I do enjoy using VIA RAIL to travel to and from Montreal. It's far more comfortable and civilised than flying, even by Porter Airlines, and I say that as an "avgeek".
2. There is merit and hope in turning the other cheek to an offence and seeking the offenders reasons and causes. In my small scale experience it effectively disarms the offenders by surprising the hell out them, in a way, literally.
The gun is so primitive and archaic. It can never be a solution and causes many tragedies. It surely must be regarded as an evil of absolute last resort and not a commonplace protection or deterrent. The term "peacemaker" to a gun is a sickening misnomer.
kb2kir
Joe Toriello 0
bettiem:
I'd be willing to bet your perception of us concealed carry types would be altered drastically if an assailant had you by the throat and I came around the corner and showed him my weapon. If he did not let you go at that point, It would be my duty to put a round in his leg to "distract" him.
Guns, like fire extinguishers, automobiles and knives CAN be used for purposes other than outright violence.....
solamich
solamich 0
Bettiem, I have 29 years with my airline and I am a flight deck officer. There are times when my first officer is also armed. There are many of us now. I don't have crossed logic and I will keep you as safe as possible on my flight without your approval. I will not hesitate to use my authority when I determine it is necessary.
cozydk
Just another big gaping hole in that security theater we all play a part in...And pay for...
solamich
solamich 0
What are you paying for? This was my nickel and my vacation time to during qualification training.
RGibson259
Robert Gibson` 0
A weapon is never more violent than it's user. It's not much of a weapon carried in a bag. I firmly believe thet we should "talk softly but carry a big stick" and the stick should be a usable weapon.
solamich
solamich 0
Criminals for gun control.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngsKzdKNAmo
rayfmcc
rayfmcc 0
As a captain flying the 767/757 for a major US airline I can tell you the TSA does not want guns on the flight deck. TSA is a facade to appease the public. I have 30+ years of gun ownership, have a concealed carry permit, can legally purchase firearms, trusted to command a weapon of mass destruction, but twice I have been denied entry into the FFDO program. The TSA will be quick to take back an already issued firearm. I will not apply again to this program but instead will have to rely on my passengers to prevent a breech of the flight deck door. If TSA was truly interested in the prevention of another Sept. 11th we would have secondary barriers on the aircraft instead of harassment and sexual assaults at screening checkpoints. Where is my second door??? Public outcry about true security and safety should be occurring.
cozydk
Every time I buy an airline ticket, I pay a very significant fee to fund the TSA and safety in general, which is obviously totally wasted when potential terrorists can rely on weapons brought trhough the security checkpoints by airline crews. And sleepwalking police officers for that matter.
solamich
solamich 0
You are smoking something Jorgen. BTW, the airplane you strap your behind to is a weapon. Stay on the ground, please.
bettiem
bettiem 0
@Joe Toriello: Thank you for your gallantry but I'd prefer the risk of ANY alternative rather than reside in a culture or society where "concealed carry types" were not only legal but generally acceptable. It is not my concept of what is meant by civilisation. It brings to mind London of several centuries ago when gentlemen carried swords. We really have progressed since then.
@solamich I envy you your profession but am dismayed that you cannot see that your approach to keeping "us" safe is no more advanced than if you were commanding a 19th century stagecoach. Worse in fact because your weapons are in a vulnerbale technical environment that makes their discharge dangerous to those you propose to protect.
@rayfrncc Re ur " If TSA was truly interested in the prevention of another Sept. 11th we would have secondary barriers on the aircraft instead of . " From teh technical point of view I understand and agree. However if those who govern us or us who are governed were truly determined to avoid another "9/11" or worse, then international and interfaith diplomacy and dialogue would be a matter of understanding and compromise, not a matter of pride, threats, fear and weapons.
The gun and a professed right to carry it is token of barbarity and perhaps of some feared loss of masculine importance in the modern Western World.
Thank you again, gentlemen, for your gallantry but I don't need it; I fear it.
God bless, good luck, goodbye and God save us all.
solamich
solamich 0
So you are obviously against air Marshalls too? They have been aboard civilian aircraft since the 70's. Post office personnel carry guns in the cabin of aircraft today, yes the mailman. BTW armed flight crews are considered officers while on duty.
Like it or not it’s the way it is and the way it will be for a long time to come so sit back, relax and enjoy the flight.
jjsifo
God Bless The USA and The Constitution!
solamich
solamich 0
Quote "However if those who govern us or us who are governed were truly determined to avoid another "9/11" or worse, then international and interfaith diplomacy and dialogue would be a matter of understanding and compromise, not a matter of pride, threats, fear and weapons.
The gun and a professed right to carry it is token of barbarity and perhaps of some feared loss of masculine importance in the modern Western World.
Thank you again, gentlemen, for your gallantry but I don't need it; I fear it."

Bettiem , I trust you have also visited your local police department, to discuss the morals of turning in their weaponry. As far as diplomacy I wish you would use your abilities, move to the middle east and convince those who have been brought up for thousands of years to hate you and want to kill you because you are a non believer (infidel)l to have a change of heart. Tell them they are wrong, maybe compromise (however that would be possible).

What a pity that most who profess to be so knowledgeable, read and travel by Internet or even monitor air traffic on this site don’t have a real clue or even visited the other side of this planet to really know what goes on.
MrTommy
MrTommy 0
I love this - "the TSA confiscated the gun and began investigating Connery". Investigating Connery? How about investigating to find out who grabbed the wrong bag? And I agree with everyone who's commented that the pilot should be WEARING the gun. It's like owning a firearm for home protection but keeping it locked up in the gun save in the garage. Huh?
jjsifo
So it will probably go the easy way,,as always, "Pilot Error" and end of story.
RGibson259
Robert Gibson` 0
Constitution says 'bear arms???
Now the question is- how do we bear arms on an aircraft.
jjsifo
According to the Merriam -Webster Dictionary, "bear" definition,: "to be equipped or furnished with something", in this case a gun in its holster and the Pilots wearing it.
solamich
solamich 0
Bettiem, get working on that dialogue, diplomacy, understanding and compromise.

Moscow terrorist attack:

http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-world-europe/20110124/EU.Russia.Airport.Blast/
jjsifo
WOW!! go figure,any doubts,questions??
spdmrcht
Ron Lorenz 0
BettieM, there's another one to add to you list, them animals!!
jjsifo
http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/01/24/uk.airplane.incident/index.html and now this,JJ
PassinThru
karle ham 0
Dear betteim, come into my house at 0300 some time and I will put you at peace, Thus Peacemaker works for me!!
solamich
solamich 0

"Everything must be done to find, expose and bring the bandits who committed this crime to court -- and the nests of these bandits, however deep they have dug in, must be liquidated," he told Federal Security Service (FSB) leaders, who are in charge of coordinating Russia's fight against terrorism.

Vladimir Putin
jjsifo
Never thought I would hear that from a Russian,do times change!!!
solamich
solamich 0
Actually, it sounds like the old days.
jjsifo
You mean back during the cold war ,but referring to us?
solamich
solamich 0
Apparently you never visited the U.S.S.R.
jjsifo
No, never did, mind stating your point?
solamich
solamich 0
Sure, kindly elaborate on "referring to us." Was the US the bad guy during Communism cold war era?
jjsifo
According to the U.S.S.R. yes, we were the bad guys, but like I said that was a good while ago.Almost everything was blamed on the USA.
solamich
solamich 0
I see what you mean.
jjsifo
Glad that was cleared up,have a great 2011!!! have a feeling this particular blog will be closed soon.
francispoju
I guess pilots needs to be more careful with such items in future, this amount to serious security breach.

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