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Search begins for new VNY FBO

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Los Angeles World Airports has issued a Request for Qualifications seeking firms interested in operating as a Fixed-Base Operator (FBO) at Van Nuys Airport (VNY) in Southern California. (www.generalaviationnews.com) Daha Fazlası...

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bbabis
bbabis 2
How many FBOs does VNY need? Does LAWA feel they can make more money off of new establishments rather than expanding existing ones? I don't know and really don't care. It sounds like more boondoggling as the great state of California swirls in the toilet. Go East young man.
Moviela
Ric Wernicke 2
Peter F Hartmann Esq. said:

"One look at the traffic counts at general aviation airports says it all; traffic is now half or less what it was in the so-called "glory" days of middle-class general aviation."

The reason general aviation has withered is not because the politicians have made it miserable to fly, it was the trial lawyers that crushed general aviation. Those using the title Esq. were often pleading in Court that it was the airplane maker and their suppliers that caused the death of persons in airplanes.

Insurance companies, run by lawyers, did not take the huge payouts in stride, nor defend against them. They simply raised the premium so high the broad middle class could no longer afford to purchase an aircraft, and few could afford to rent one.

To become a private pilot today at the lowest rates it costs roughly $150/hr, with about $100 of that going into the pockets of lawyers.

I am not sure Van Nuys needs another FBO until we get the sharks out of aviation.

Personally I have been pushing California legislators to exempt manufacturers of spacecraft from lawsuits and liability that have so crippled general aviation.
akayemm
Er.A.K. Mittal 1
Dear Friend Ric Wernicke, being a lawyer, though in India, I will be grateful if you could elaborate on the back ground. After all laws are similar if not same every where and norms of practice do not vary widely from country to country. I mean use vs. abuse of law and legal system !
Moviela
Ric Wernicke 1
नमस्ते

I think I explained the situation above. In America a writ of mandate is usually only sought against government to compel behavior. For torts most often money is prayed for as compensation. The trial lawyers have greatly abused the system and used ordinary members of the public with very little information to help them weigh very complicated cases. Why do lawyers do it? As individuals they earn millions of dollars for relatively few hours of effort expended.

Abraham Lincoln said "A lawyers stock in trade is his time." I would add "but it is not worth $ 17,000.00 per hour.
akayemm
Er.A.K. Mittal 1
I am humbled by your respect for my bearings. I am speechless. About Lincoln , thanX for the information. A useful one at that. A very prominent lawyer of my country said some thing similar , in one of the courts of Supreme Court of India, 'we lawyers are piece rate workers'. At that time I was present in the court but I will not dilate by telling the whole story.
Now about your remarks on fees, I am tempted to explain the basics of lawyers' fees. These may vary with place but rules of game are similar.
-->To serve the need of a client the lawyer invokes law, demanding reasonable fees.
-->To serve the greed of the client the lawyer invokes loop holes in law, demanding large fees which are bound to be disproportionate.
About $ 17,000.00, again I have some thing to explain. Firstly you have not indicated under what circumstances this pay out was made ? Thus I will respond in a very generalised manner.
1. In arbitration matters, the pay out can be as a percentage, visibly unrelated to time or labour involved.
2. In matters related to claims, similar formula may be applied.
3. In stay/injunction related matters, the stakes involved determine the fees. Irrespective of lawyers' time, outside or inside the court room.
4. In criminal matters, the bail fees are decided by the status of the person/s involved !
5. In a country like yours even to get restraint orders can demand high lawyer fees ! Depending upon personalities(celebrities) involved.
6. Divorce cases, again same formula , persons involved.
And there can be many more.

On the lighter but factual side, in Clinton-Lewinsky affair, the legal costs were so prohibitive that the two 'clients' resorted to writing books and using the royalty to pay up "lawyers' debts" ! !

[This comment has been downvoted. Show anyway.]

[This comment has been downvoted. Show anyway.]

Moviela
Ric Wernicke 1
A Cessna 172 was $15K in 1972. A Skyhawk today is $289,000.00 Inflation accounts for a multiplier of about 5X (thanks Jimmie Carter.) So where does the difference between 75K and 289K go? It is in the pockets of the lawyers that enriched themselves in a manner that is offensive to the traditional notions of substantial justice and fair play. That is about $ 200,000.00 per aircraft sold.

I am not picking on lawyers, as many do their work protecting the rights of people whether by law or equity. I am critical of those that use low information juries to amp low six figure claims into a magnitude higher windfall for the injured parties and the law firm.

This alone is what has excluded the middle class from general aviation.

When I took my first lesson in a C150, I paid 7. for the plane, and $15. for the lesson. At the same FBO it is now $154. My lessons totaled $855. including a scarf to fly an AA1A with the canopy open. The same money today takes you to six hours. Multiply by 5 for inflation, that is 30 hours. Still a bit short....
mbundy
mbundy 1
As a tenant of VNY all I can say is "it's about time!". For years now LAWA has been sitting on quite a bit of un(der)developed land at VNY. Rather than seeking development, they've instead raised rent and fuel taxes. It looks like they are finally listening to us.
tduggan2010
Tim Duggan 0
*nice*...oops
akayemm
Er.A.K. Mittal -2
I am sure that that the prerequisites for the FBOs will be as extra ordinary as the airport itself. An airport which out classes some of the busiest ones in terms of landings BUT not in terms of passenger traffic ! Like the debatable remark ' 5% people holding 95% of wealth' , making a whole 100% ! ha ha ;-p
THRUSTT
THRUSTT 1
tduggan2010
Tim Duggan 1
Er.A.K. Mittal, I am not certain you understood what 'FBO' means.

To my read, this article is targeted towards a desire for officials at LAX to suggest that KVNY (Van Nuys) step up as an alternative destination for private flights, in order to free up KLAX for its regularly scheduled airline traffic operations.

By "private flights" I refer to those wealthy who can afford to charter, or who are super-wealthy and own their own private transportation jets.
akayemm
Er.A.K. Mittal 0
Mr. Tim Duggan,do the following fit into your so called specialized knowledge of an FBO ? Or the following have nothing to do with FBOs mentioned in the article?
Fixed-base operators support a wide range of aeronautical activities which may include one or more of the following:
Sale of aviation fuel – piston aircraft fuel (100LL or Avgas) and/or turbine aircraft fuel (Jet-A or Jet A-1)
Line services for general aviation aircraft
Air taxi and air charter operations
Scheduled or nonscheduled air carrier services and support services
Pilot training
Aircraft rental and sightseeing
Aircraft sales and service
Aircraft storage (tie-down or hangar)
Repair and maintenance of aircraft.
Sale of aircraft parts
Aerial photography
Crop dusting and aerial applications
Aerial advertising and surveying

And some more as specifically may be required.

Further, with no ill will to your "knowledge" and my lack of knowledge "as perceived" by you kindly read every word of opening para, repeated below
'Los Angeles World Airports has issued a Request for Qualifications seeking firms interested in operating as a Fixed-Base Operator (FBO) at Van Nuys Airport (VNY) in Southern California.'
You still want me to understand that this new set of facility(2 FBOs) will have nothing to do with the existing facility at KVNY ? KVNY meaning airport and not the township of Van Nuys ! Or does it ? And are there other KVNYs, different from this one mentioned in the article. And hence I failed to understand the article written in English language.

I will be more than glad to add to my info bank about FBOs! If you can !
tduggan2010
Tim Duggan 0
Yes, an 'FBO' complies with all of those definitions. But, not *every* FBO will provide each of those services.

'MY' point is this:

KLAX is heavily burdened already with airline traffic operations. What the LAX Airport Authority is suggesting is to "lighten the load" by having some *other* nearby airports take up the role of providing services to private operators.

"Nearby" being the key word, here. If you are familiar with the greater Los Angeles region (as I am, since I grew up here, and live here), then it makes sense.

Also, besides the air traffic issue, there is the problem of "real estate" at KLAX, in terms of accepting private flights.

I did not mean to impugn your understanding on this topic, sorry if it came off as such.

KVNY is a really ice airport, and closer to KLAX than, say, KONT. (Although, Ontario Airport could serve the role suggested, here).

Take a look at a map, to see the reasons why Van Nuys makes sense.....closer to Hollywood, and Burbank, etc. Speaking of Burbank...yes, there is an airport RIGHT THERE (KBUR), but there is no "real estate" available for expansion.

Does this make any sense?
akayemm
Er.A.K. Mittal 1
Dear Mr. Duggan, In my opening comment, contrary to my habit of writing more words, I opted to write in brief. But it proved to be a bad experiment.
I have not been to USA, any part. And thank God for that! Good for all.
I know the character of KVNY . I also understand managemental problems that might have triggered such a decision, to 'transfer' some "load" to another suitable site(airport).
One doesn't have to be an aviator to see the problem of KLAX and to think in terms of solutions/substitute. A simple visit or a VDO assisted by hard data will serve the purpose. All that is required is some common sense, which I firmly hold, is not very easily noticeable where it should.
Please bear with me that we are on the same page. Always. Come what may. On all subjects on which I venture to comment. Briefly or in a dilatory manner ! I know where I fall short and where I excel. And I am bold enough to say or declare where ever necessary.
Please remember the movie " Executive Decision" where it was the guy in the 'Tuxedo' who did the planning of over powering the terrorists, not those uniformed guys who were full of hate for him ! !

[This comment has been downvoted. Show anyway.]

captainjman
Jason Feldman 2
And yes, it seems everyone hates aviation, why is that? Noise?

There are so many airports that have noise curfews... in the US... curfews? really?

In so many cases the very people who complain of our noise will drive a car with loud exhausts or their stereo turned all the way up, or a harley - GOD - have you heard a Harley... Shouldn't they be required to stop riding by curfew???

I live in a condo near a traffic light. Even with our noise absorbing construction (because we live so close to O'hare) it wakes everyone up every time a Harley Davidson or other noisy bike sits there at the light revving his engine at 3 o'clock in the morning. I can't hear a single airplane - but of course there are a billion noise complaints about ORD's traffic.

Then there is the "have and have-nots". Surely all of us who fly are all millionaire - and didn't you know its okay to be prejudiced as long as its aimed at someone who succeeded in life through hard work (usually, not always). You can't show contempt for any other group of people. Heck, your first amendment rights don't even exist if you say a bad word anymore.. even by accident, or if someone is yelling at you and making fun of you. (I am not a racist- just making a point so PC people go away) LOL - uh oh, i said something about Politically Correctness people - I'm in trouble now. LOL I would think people would look up to success, but whatever, I must be crazy for feeling that way right? God forbid I should become well off someday I will be hated. Maybe I shouldn't invent something. If I invent something that saves lives - like some new medicine for instance, or AED... I better not make money doing it. So why not just keep it to myself, why work so hard? Oh well, I am sure those who suffer or die will appreciate the fact that I never mass produced my life saving item - because at least I didn't turn into a top 1% person. HA HA HA

OH, and another thought

its important to have plenty of competition so that prices can be dropped and companies can be run out of business by whomever has the deeper pocket, its the American way!

Has it always been like this?

When did value take a back seat to price? what decade?
tduggan2010
Tim Duggan -1
Pertinent comments. Especially:

"When did value take a back seat to price? what decade?"

Well, in the airline industry, in can 'testify" to the very early 1980s...begun with the de-certificaton of the CAB, in 1978.

REF: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airline_Deregulation_Act

It is infinitely more complicated, ever since. As Corporations adapted to the new legislation rules, and learned to "bend the rules" in their adaptations.

Lived it, here. AND, the ultimate fruits of the original "deregulation experiment" are now coming home to roost.

Giriş

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