Germanwings Intentionally Crashed? Cockpit Door Locked Out One Pilot

A probable hare-brained idea: in a situation like this the pilot kept outised the cockpit agains his will will be allowed to send a message to the airline HQ which in turn will reléase the locking mechanism open.

I just read breaking new that Air Canada has just implemented the mandatory 2 people minimum in the cockpit at all times rule. This is prudent under the circumstances, and it seems to have worked for US carriers, however I am not sure how effective it really would be. Would it really be difficult for someone who is mentally unstable for whatever reason to quickly incapacitate this individual, particularly if they are physically much larger and stronger? This is not intended as a sexist remark, and there are exceptions, but, generally speaking, how hard would it be for a 6' 200 man to knock out a 5'5" 120 pound woman. My point is this may place flight attendants at unnecessary risk in an area where they are not really trained.

I'm on the other side of the pond. Y'know where they used to say on maps "Here be Dragons". Oh! no, it was your side wasn't it.

Looks like suicide committed by PIC: Once at altitude, the other pilot gets out of his seat, closes door. PIC changes willingly the altitude setting on autopilot, leaving throttle and course as is. He does neither react to calls from ATC, nor to the knocks on the door. He was not incapacitated. If so, the autopilot would have kept FL380 till the cows come home. Then he just waits.

I would think that the passengers would have panicked and started sending text or tried to make phone calls if something like that was going on. Eight minutes is a long time, there would be tweets, emails, texts etc. and I haven't heard of anything like that.

And this is why US airlines have a FA GO INSIDE THE FLIGHT DECK if one pilot comes out !!!

Hoping for hypoxia, not homicide.

Sorry if this is a stupid question (forgive me) but couldn't flight decks be extended to accommodate a flight crew toilet? That way they do not need to leave the deck.

Here's a simple (sort of) solution...
Pressure switches in both seats that detect when someone is seated. Only when both seats are occupied can the keypad override be used. Whenever a seat is unoccupied, regardless of the setting of the override switch, the keypad will work.

I foresee the day when flight control software will prevent a plane from destroying itself, whether on autopilot or not.

I'm not even sure that having 2 in the cockpit is a failsafe. For example, in the Egyptair 990 suicide crash the pilot re-entered the cockpit but was unable to correct the situation in time. As pointed out by others, somebody in the cockpit determined to bring a plane down can probably work around any safeguard. The best thing you can do is try and screen out people who might do this. It's been pretty successful if one considers the number of pilots through history in contrast to the number of times an event like this has occurred.

Press is reporting the co-pilot set the autopilot to full descent mode How can they possibly now this since the FDR has not been recovered???

To my thought, the most important aspect of what's happened is depression and its stigma. The FAA has done little on this issue. Allowing a small number of medications is it so far. If those don't work for someone, they just have to suck it up and fly if they want a paycheck. There is little safety net, as Disability Insurance is mostly useless, with those companies fighting like hell to deny claimants. People are mostly scared to engage anyone with depression issues, and are likely to run from anyone with psychiatric issues. So, pilots who are dealing with depression and other psychological and/or psychiatric issues are going to mostly be left untreated or not properly treated. So, it would be best for attitudes to change to address pilots facing these issues.

Not saying it is what we are all thinking in the back of our heads, but remember, the PIC did crash a E-190 (LAM Mozambique iirc) about a year or two ago

Just may be, a repeat of Egypt Air B-767 with a psycho pilot that ditched the airliner in the name of Allah...

Kicking in the bathroom bulkhead or the Galley
Would be easier then breaking down the the Ammored
Door - just future A320 operational information

Are we that afraid of terrorism that we'd rather have something like this than take the tiny risk of having someone take a key from the captain's cold dead fingers, or beat a passcode out of him?

A pilot who has the intent of crashing a plane could easily overtake a FA. How do we solve this? An armed air marshal supervising the PIC while the other pilot uses the restroom? How could you be certain that an ARMED marshal might not try to bring down a plane. This event is going to have far reaching effects. We put our lives in the hands of these pilots and we assume they love their jobs and have our best interest/lives/safety at heart. Sadly, this is apparently not the case here. There will have to be some type of system whereas a pilot can "lock" the autopilot on while he steps away from the controls and that input can only be unlocked with 2 passcodes/inputs/thumbprint scan/retinal scan..whatever,from BOTH pilots for the control to be reinstated to both pilots. A sad day for aviation to be sure.

I notice that when the descent started, speed increased, as expected. However, about half way to the ground, the speed is reduced. Can someone proffer an explanation for this?

Pilot 1 goes to bathroom, Pilot 2 starts descent in VS mode.. Has a heart attack and dies before entering the level off altitude. Pilot 1 tries to get back in but it's too late?

If it's hypoxia why is the 1st or cap. Knocking then banging on the door.

I'm absolutely stunned by this news.

Anyone know if we have the two bodies in the cockpit at all times rule in Canada?

The location is a bit remote: hard to say if they would have service.

Did anyone mentioned the need for a simple "relief tube"? USAF fighter ferry flts w/tanker support often exceeded 5+00 hrs....all had a "tube"!

30 minutes into flight..a toilet break? Of no
consequence,but unusual..

An unusual story about which I am reminded: Last year, one year ago this week in fact, a Jet Blue flight was forced to land in Amarillo.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2012-03-27/jetblue-plane-diverted-after-captain-becomes-ill-during-flight

As I recall, the copilot took over and locked the pilot out of the cockpit by changing the combination when the pilot left to use the lavatory. The copilot had judged that the pilot was not fit to fly (details in the article linked).

I'm not sure what security Germanwings had in-place, but if it was the same mechanism by which a code could be entered for the pilot to re-enter the cockpit, then it would be likely the remaining pilot had to change the code. The other possibility, that the exited pilot forgot the code and some kind of health event overtook the remaining pilot in the cockpit, seems remote. It would be two acts to crash the plane rather than one: locking out the exited pilot and using the plane's controls to intentionally crash. Not knowing how the 320 operates, it may be even more difficult than this to essentially override the computer to fly the plane into the ground.

I'm not a commercial pilot but perhaps a security card situation carried by both pilots. Both cards would need to be inserted into a software console before and after autopilot is engaged. If pilot leaves cockpit he removes his security card. And autopilot can not be disengaged until second security card is reinserted. The same software app may also control the hatch rather than the present method. Pilot must insert card then pin and he's in and both pilots together are in control.

Heard 2 hours ago on french info radio that F/O's body found with torn documents in pocket showing him on sick leave. Was not supposed to fly. Apparently Airline not advzd.

Not sure the electronic devices would have service in that remote area
@torsten hoff

Carl Kjellman

I don`t understand how a serious company can let a depressed man work as pilot on a

plane. The co-pilot should not have been allowed any where near the cockpit

Well, now they are throwing some mental illness in the mix.

Is it unusual for a Captain to hand over the controls to the FO for a bathroom break 25 minutes into a two hour flight?

Is this indicates that preplanned one?

Maybe one of you real pilots could fill me in. Would the PIC that was left in the pit have any reason to mess with the auto pilot while the the other pilot was out of his seat? What I am wondering is that if there was a need for an adjustment/correction and a medical emergency of some sort that incapacitated the PIC, he would not have been able to reset the auto pilot? Seems to me we may never know. Terrible.

C'mon folks, we land spacecraft on Mars for god sake...we can't figure out
how to fix this ??

Question: I do not see any mentions of announcements heard on the plane PA system. Passenger must have seen the Captain banging on the door in the rather small A320. I'm sure they where wondering what in the world was going on. Is it odd that there is no reference to a PA announcement trying to (at least at first) calm people down?

Question: I do not see any mentions of announcements on the plane PA system. Passenger must have seen the Captain banging on the door in the rather small A320. I'm sure they where wondering what in the world was going on. Is it odd that there is no reference to a PA announcement trying to (at least at first) calm people down?

We are US citizens living in Europe and fly a variety of low-cost and legacy carriers. For every flight that I have been on, when one of the pilots leaves the cockpit, a F/A enters; ensuring two people are in it at all times. Wondering if the requirement is EU mandated or a rule by each airline.

Maybe one of you real pilots could fill me in. Would the PIC that was left in the pit have any reason to mess with the auto pilot while the the other pilot was out of his seat? What I am wondering is that if there was a need for an adjustment/correction and a medical emergency of some sort that incapacitated the PIC, he would not have been able to reset the auto pilot? Seems to me we may never know. Terrible.

Here's an article and video on the cockpit door:

http://www.aviationpros.com/news/12058651/video-shows-how-a-pilot-might-have-been-locked-out-of-the-cockpit

That's the English way of saying sarcasm while pretending to avoid offence usually unsuccssessfully

Gaining re-entry:
Why didn't they apply a combo type lock on the cockpit door ?
Easy access back in. Unless the high security bolt was thrown.
In that case then only a key and over ride the high security type lock - period.
Locks by time....high security locks only by more time.

A French prosecutor says the co-pilot of the Germanwings airbus was breathing normally and appeared to want to “destroy the plane.” He was a German national without any indication of a connection to terrorism.

http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/world/Germanwings+Flight+9525+pilot+appeared+want+destroy+plane/10921505/story.html

There has got to be something here not being told about this FO, for him to be arbitrarily blamed for taking the plane down. Granted, all appears to point that way, but how do they know he was not incapacitated in some way. The other thing, as I have stated, that bothers me and some other folks, how come no fire.

(Duplicate Squawk Submitted)

One pilot exited cockpit on Germanwings flight 9525

According to an official involved in the investigation of the fated Germanwings flight 9525, one pilot was locked out of the cockpit during the plane's final minutes.

http://jansaviation.com/news.php?art=one-pilot-exited-cockpit-on-germanwings-flight-9525

I'm with the suicide theorists. I'm guessing Germanwings never adopted the 2 body rule in the cockpit like the US does.

OK for those who asked. Prior to 911, and the secure cockpit door, it was not uncommon for 1 pilot to leave the cockpit for physiological reasons. This would leave only one person in the cockpit. After 911 we installed the secure door. The US airlines elected not to modify aircraft with a video system to verify who was at the door prior to cockpit entry. Without a video system, one crew member must get up from a control seat to look through a peep hole to verify who is attempting entry. Therefore, once one person leaves the cockpit, the US carriers established the policy where a F/A would enter the cockpit. That F/A would verify, via the peep hole, who was entering. This allowed the sole pilot to remain at the controls and did not require him to just electricly unlook the cockpit door without verifying who was entering.
Some foreign carriers elected to ìnstall a video system. This allows the single pilot flying, to verify who is entering, electrically unlock the door, without getting up from a control seat.

I'm sorry politically incorrect on my first post,
back to a 3 person flight management control center.

Back to a 3 man cockpit

too soon,way too soon

Anyone know why the investigators can't figure out what happen even though they have the flight recorder?

Come on all you Xenophobic American, "if it ain't Boeing I'm not going", not invented here types. Surely you can come up with some contorted thought up reasoning why it must be the fault of airbus industrie.

I find it suspicious that the crash of Flight of germanwing completely disintegrated
My company will incorporate this model the airbus 320-200
and lack the black box chip or memory card manager juanguerrero.- charter flights worldwide express Bolivia

Airlines will eventually go pilotless and be controlled by some one at HQ

It is my understanding that the dispute between Lafthansa and its pilots at least partially involves the shrinking of the Lufthansa fleet and the increase in the Size of the Germanwings fleet. If so, I would assume that many pilots would be given the opportunity to transfer over to Germanwings at a lower rate of pay.
The people transferring over would probably have more hours than the accused co-pilot of that doomed flight. That means that with only 640 hours on type, he was probably going to be furloughed. This pilot had worked apparently for almost 5 years as a FA. He really had the determination and heart to stick to his dreams of flight. Perhaps,the company was about to put him on the beach again.
Totally speculative, but the scenario caused by the 2 airlines and their labour disputes with their pilots, might lead to an unbalanced desperate young pilot to make a bad decision. Comments?