Bu web site tanımlama bilgileri kullanmaktadır. Bu web siteyi kullanarak ve bu sitede gezinerek, bunu kabul etmiş olursunuz.
Kapat
FlightAware uçuş takibinin reklamlarla desteklendiğini biliyor muydunuz?
FlightAware.com'dan gelen reklamlara izin vererek FlightAware'in ücretsiz kalmasını sağlamamıza yardım edebilirsiniz. harika bir deneyim sunmak adına reklamlarımızı anlamlı ve öne çıkmayacak şekilde tutmak için yoğun şekilde çalışıyoruz. FlightAware'deki whitelist adsreklamları güvenilir olarak görmek hızlı ve kolaydır, veya lütfen premium hesaplarımıza geçmeyi düşünün.
Kapat
Back to Squawk list
  • 67

We Can Prevent Another MH370

eklendi
 
There is no good reason why tragic mysteries such as Malaysian Airlines Flight 370, Air France Flight 447 and EgyptAir Flight 990 should occur. We have the technology now to prevent or immediately track down and learn the cause of such disasters. (www.aviationtoday.com) Daha Fazlası...

Sort type: [Top] [Newest]


Greg77FA
Greg77FA 4
Two ways to push this faster: 1) Insurance companies get together and demand, and those who do not get on board pay the high premium associated with a lost aircraft, 2) Tie implementation to bonus of the leadership and management at the insurance and airlines. Money talks and incentives will help make this happen. Just have to have the will.
tongo
Dan Grelinger -6
The additional cost for the risk of a lost aircraft is very low. Compared to the number of airplanes flying and the number flights made, this happens very, very rarely. So the extra cost to cover the risk would not be compelling.
ellis8fox
In the event that an aircraft crashes into water, why not have a material like a liquid dye held in an compartment on the plane. This compartment would be located on the part of the fuselage that
is most likely to breakup upon impact. The dye or equivalent material would thus spread out on the surface of the water and hopefully retain enough cohesiveness to be visible for 24 to 48 hours. This is a crude solution to the problem but an easy one to implement.
tyler2010us
Use something bright and noticeable, like what Chicago uses to dye their river green! Example Image: bit.ly/2GDFxfz
qv22buhrz
A slight issue is that if there is a crash in a suburb, par say, we have a big mess and a potential health hazard.
scumming
If a commercial aircraft crashed in a suburb, the spread of some marker dye would be the least of your worries!

The considerable amount of wreckage and destroyed buildings would be a bigger mess than a bit of dye.
yarnoca1
John Yarno 0
The dye pack would need to be released upon impact or rise to the surface before dismemberment. That setup would require a lot of engineering, testing and product development, all to get something that would be dispersed within hours. Remember however, any suggestion is better than none.
tongo
Dan Grelinger -3
Any intelligent suggestion is better than none. Stupid suggestions are worse than none because they are distractions from what is real and reasonable.
herdy34
Jon Herd 2
No need to be snarky, Dan. This is just a discussion forum.
tongo
My expectation of everyone is that if they put fingers to keyboard, they be reasonable. The comment "Any suggestion is better than none" is not reasonable. There are too many examples of 'suggestions' I can think of that would be deemed terribly inappropriate.
yarnoca1
John Yarno 2
I am going to stick with any suggestion is better than none. While it may not prove practical, it usually gets other minds working and thinking if something that will work. Solutions must start somewhere.
tongo
Dan Grelinger -3
Well, we'll see if you're right. My money is on nothing of any value resulting from your suggestion.
yarnoca1
John Yarno 2
Well if a dye pack would not last long, and therefore not be worth the effort, how about releasing a beacon, which could be picked up by satellite (they already exist but can't transmit under water). There is a suggestion built upon another.
tongo
Dan Grelinger -2
I don't think your second suggestion was built on the first, it is nothing like it. Your second suggestion is built largely on what already exists on all commercial aircraft, the difference being that it is designed to be released. In the case of MH370, I don't believe that it would have made a difference. Anything that broadcasts a mayday signal must be able to be shut off by the pilot. It is also quite possible that the impact with the water was violent enough that any release of a working device would likely not occur.
yarnoca1
John Yarno 2
That was meant to be an example of how one suggestion can lead to another. There are classes and seminars built around problem solving. You should try finding one. It is quite fascinating how this actually works. I am not arguing about the suggestion, but rather trying to show how problem are solved, building one idea onto another. It really does work.
tongo
Dan Grelinger -4
I’d wager that I have been more schooled in creative problem solving tand have much more practical experience at it than you presume.I suggest that any attempt to use it in this forum will prove to be worthless. I’d wager a decent sum that nothing real will happen as a result of what people suggest here. My initial objection was the O.P.’s suggestion that a dumb idea would actually work. At some point, the intelligent have to weed out the wheat from the chaff.

My point to you is you did not build on the first ‘suggestion’, but came up with something entirely different by attempting to build on an idea that actually has been implemented. And as a result of rejecting what was worthless was able to come up with something better. And yes, my role turned out to be necessary for you to do that.
tongo
Dan Grelinger -6
You're not an engineer or designer are you? There are obvious reasons this would not work.
JeffTurner
Jeff Turner 4
I'm not either... But since you are the expert... Why would it not work?
tongo
Dan Grelinger -4
Name the substance that you would use and how much of it you would have to carry on an airliner, and I will tell you why it won't work. What you will find is that you can't do it.
RECOR10
RECOR10 -2
God bless the hippy liberal tree huggers and the EPA...man I love those idiots.
Highflyer1950
Build a better ELT that can operate under water. I mean MH370 had a minimum of 4 ELT’s and none of them worked either due to being submerged or damaged?

[This poster has been suspended.]

Highflyer1950
CB’s have nothing to do with ELT’s!

[This poster has been suspended.]

Highflyer1950
So where is the CB for ELT in each of the two life rafts, the ELT located at the right rear exit door? The fixed ELT is armed with a switch in the cockpit which can be disarmed but not the others.
tongo
Are the liferaft 'ELT's really PRBs? Are they designed to automatically activate in case of impact, like real ELTs?
Highflyer1950
Generally, only the fixed ELT located in the tail and when armed by the switch in the cockpit will operate either by “+G” forces or contact with water. There are some portable ELT types that can be either water or manually activated located in the life rafts but they carry a much higher cost per unit. Personally, I would like to see a remote switch located outside the aircraft so that the Fixed ELT can be armed during the preflight check by the pilot.
tongo
OK, so its not really relevant that the 'ELTs' on the life rafts don't have circuit breakers that will disable them. They aren't even enabled for activation during a crash.
tongo
Dan Grelinger -3
"Build a better ELT that can operate under water."

Shoot, if your willing to just wish for pie-in-the-sky, you should have said "Build a better airplane that will never crash."
tnbriggs
The article states “Still, as McMillan pointed out, 'we knew where Air France (Flight 447 in 2009) and Air Egypt (Flight 990 in 1999) were, and we still haven’t found the flight data recorders.' ”

Not the case for AF447. The BEA accident report shows pictures of it in their lab.
jmadunleavy
John D 0
Right! They found # 447's recorders in May 2011
BenShockley
Can jet liners be configured with GPS transmitters/ELTs that work underwater? as well as crash proof? And they are all unable to be disabled?
tongo
Dan Grelinger -1
Uhhh, don't GPS transmitters only exist in outer space? Why do we need GPS transmitters underwater?
BenShockley
Maybe some smart person can invent something that another person can not alter... If we had something that worked well under water--one could locate missing planes, ships, and etc... I understand that the GPS sats are in outer space and what info they provides for us--we need the equivalent for under water tracking as well... That would make finding planes, ships, and etc. much more efficient.
yarnoca1
John Yarno 1
We do have something that works under water. Each Flight Recorder has a little self contained pinger that starts pinging when it is immersed in water. The problem is that the ping is not very strong and deep water, combined with thermal layers can throw it off and reduce its range (which is not all that great anyway). That technology exists, and should be able to be scaled up.
tongo
Have you done the math? Sound intensity diminishes by a square of the increased distance. If you want it to be heard 10 times farther away, the sound it makes has to be 100 times louder. If you want it to be heard a 1000 times farther away, the sound has to be 1 million times louder. Could you imagine what would happen if one of these went off by accident during flight?

These solutions are not that simple. They only appear so to the uniformed. We all feel like experts before we learn what we don't know.
yarnoca1
John Yarno 0
GPS relies on very low power communication with space born transmitters. The signal can be blocked by tunnels and bridges. It would not take much water to block them completely. That being said, the planes communicate with satellites while airborne, just intermittently. Some of those signals can be turned off by the flight crew, and that needs to be stopped. Had we known where MH370 was, minutes before it hit the water, the search would have started in the right place and likely located the pingers on the 'black boxes'. As it was, they had to run the satellite orbits through a computer program to determine about where the were when they received a signal. What is needed is live communication with every flight so that we always know exaxtly where the plane is. I think the system is beginning to come on line now.
tongo
And it is called...?
stevebalko
I’m sure whatever device the engineers come up with will be very expensive.
You can’t put a price on ones life. This should have been done decades ago.
Now it’s time to get it done.
RECOR10
RECOR10 0
Um. I can put a price on someones life. Many countries with socialized medical care are more than willing to put a price (RVU) on a persons life as pertaining to the quantity and quality of care. Anyone in the United States who see's the budgets knows that we put a value on lives of some (politicians) ahead of the plebeians every day.

We all take risks and we weigh out the options. It is factually safer to fly than to drive in the current world. In either case, there is an 'odd' involved. I simply do not see why any carriers (even more so a US carrier) would spend more money on being safer. There simply is no ROI.

Flame away.
tongo
You must put a price on peoples' lives, otherwise nothing would ever be created. Look at cars. If we adopted the attitude that peoples' lives are so priceless that we must spend whatever money necessary to keep ANYONE from dying, then we would not be able to produce cars at any cost. However, we do a cost/benefit analysis, and as a society, accept the tens of thousands of highway deaths each year because we don't want to spend more on the problem than we have already.
tongo
I can't help but be doubtful when an article starts with "There is no good reason why..." There are always plenty of good reasons why. Cost is always a reason, and my guess is that there is a cost involved.
ghstark
Greg S 2
Exactly, there'd be a cost without any real compelling benefit. It sounds cruel but it's really no big deal in the grand scheme of aviation to lose a few planes without explanation, especially compared to the daily carnage that's occurring on the ground with passenger vehicles.
nearLAX
nearLAX 1
If MH370 had crashed, it would have been found. When things like that happen, it's for a reason. – Has MH17 been resolved to everybody's satisfaction? No...why not? We all know why not.
herdy34
Jon Herd 1
I have been thinking for some time, that instead if, or in addition to a black box, passenger aircraft have a transmitter that sends data to a computer on the ground some where.

That would mean the entire flight is recorded, not just the last 20 minutes.

The engineering requirements shouldn’t be hard to overcome, and the weight penalty shouldn’t be too severe.
tongo
Are you being funny? Such a thing exists, even on MH370.
yarnoca1
John Yarno 1
It would not take much to add a much more powerful underwater locator beacon, kept charged by the plane and armored to 20K+ depth. One with enough battery to last months, and a signal which could be picked up for many miles. Just scale up the beacons on the FDR's and attach them to the air-frame. True it would not track the flight, but the signal would be there and with a much larger radius then the little pingers on the FDR and CVR. No new tech, a small engineering program, and a very low cost retrofit to the aircraft.
tongo
And it would still not prevent MH370... In fact, I can't even think of a single time this idea would have saved a single life....

[This poster has been suspended.]

tongo
And you can't use proper English.
AzamHamid
Azam Hamid 1
Mh370 has become the greatest mystery of aviation. Together we can prevent this from happening again.

[This poster has been suspended.]

[This poster has been suspended.]

[This poster has been suspended.]

sshelton
Removing the 'Boeing Uninterruptable Auto-Pilot' (BUAP} would be the answer to MH370 and I believe Boeing is doing this currently.
tongo
Removing a figment of your imagination is always the answer to real problems. Way to go! You're brilliant! Using that same logic, if we can just get rid of purple flying dinosaurs, world hunger would be solved.

Can you get to working on that one now that you got this other big problem all figured out?
sshelton
I am sorry you thinking is not able to expand... maybe one day you will GROW.
tongo
By "expand", I think you mean "accept any conspiracy theory, no matter how ridiculous." Sorry, can't do that, I am too reasonable.
avihais
"3. It must be a two-way system that can be activated by the pilot.....". The whole issue is from navigational waypoints taken, altitude changes, turns indicating use of AP it is clear that MH370 was unlawful interference, high probability the Pilot(s). Live streaming is data extensive and just check Flightaware with thousands of those dots airborne all the satellites on streaming overload. The DFDR's and other systems are hard wired. So a similar system linked with the initial flight plan that has a big continuous broadcast spazy if the aircraft goes off course or off secondary radar.
jbermo
jbermo 0
Next generation airplanes will have the captain flying his airplane with his co-pilot working from the ground. Both capable of equal control as is today. . . . A guaranteed survivor of every crash.
tongo
Until the captain disables the ground link.
jbermo
jbermo 1
We have an app for that
tongo
I'd rather that my pilots have "skin in the game".
jbermo
jbermo 2
And one will.
paulgilpin1953
paul gilpin 0
if a government entity wants to lose a plane, the plane will be lost.
picturetaker
That thing might be sitting in a hangar at Diego Garcia for all we know. I wouldn't be surprised if somebody "finds" it in a couple years, or whenever a convenient distraction is needed from some other large-scale global event.
royhunte92
Roy Hunte 2
That would be interesting, but what about the missing people, where would they be??
jmadunleavy
John D 0
I thought I saw something in the last year or so that they found some pieces they traced back to MH370.
anthony96
anthony96 1
yes thay found the flaparon
yr2012
matt jensen -1
Fish food
Pbt74
P Turner -1
How to prevent another MH370.
1. Redesign Boeing 777 electronics bay by moving the oxygen bottle away from the Left AIMS Cabinet, aka the left electronic brain.
2. Passing laws which prevent the airline owner (Malaysian Government) from being the lead investigator on grounds of conflict of interest, where they can withhold crucial information.
3. Search beyond 40 nautical miles past Bayesian Hotspot around S39E88 for more information. It will have a ruptured oxygen bottle which Malaysia topped up prior to flight.
sshelton
Guess most are not aware of the how MH370 was "lost". Here's the actual real truth answer inside this YT video: 'Boeing Uninterruptable Auto-Pilot' (BUAP}
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnNgKmxqWjw
tongo
Dan Grelinger -1
Hey all, report this as spam. I did.
sshelton
Not spam but what did happen to MH370 with a link from the expert.
tongo
Dan Grelinger -1
When I hit the link, I get "Field McConnell - Hillary Clinton's connection to 9/11... revealed!"

Was MH370 forced by terrorist through a wormhole so that it could participate in 9/11? Time to get off the meds.
sshelton
Not at all... watch the video as he explains how what happened with his expertise. You are welcome to ignore the 9/11 stuff.

[This poster has been suspended.]

tongo
Do your parents know that your playing around with their computer instead of in bed?
motleysesm
greg motley -6
How does our satellite system not see these mysteries with GPS
ghstark
Greg S 5
GPS satellites broadcast information, they don't receive. So they allow the airplanes to know where they are on the globe at any time, but if the airplane wants to tell someone else it must use a different system.
herdy34
Jon Herd 1
Of course they receive.
tongo
Our GPS satellites receive information about the locations of the GPS devices on the ground? That was the original suggestion. Your comment is either grossly inaccurate, or just noise that is impertinent to the discussion that was going on.

Any you said it with such confidence, too.

Giriş

Hesabınız yok mu? Kişiselleştirilmiş özellikler, uçuş uyarıları ve daha fazlası için şimdi (ücretsiz) üye olun!