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Frontier Airbus deiced incorrectly

eklendi
 
A Frontier Airlines plane was supposed to be deiced prior to takeoff from Nashville The deicing company informed the crew that the aircraft was deiced and clear of contaminants Upon reaching the runway, a flight attendant noticed there was still a significant buildup of snow and ice on the wings, and informed the pilots The plane returned to the gate, at which point it was discovered that there was about a foot of snow on the wings Apparently the deicing company had run low on deicing fluid,… (onemileatatime.com) Daha Fazlası...

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andyc852
Accolades to the flight attendant. Could have been a disaster. DeIcing crew better be looking for a new off airport job and their supervisor as well

[This comment has been downvoted. Show anyway.]

webken10
webken10 2
Given the times, this remark is inappropriate to automatically remove or hide, as it does reflect reality and facts, albeit this pilot hopes not in aviation, not in this case, especially! As to point of Paul's remark, some real life cases, do seem to be as bad as he quips. It was a quip, IMO, but sadly reflecting a bitter regret of mine, probably his too, also of these pathetic times, politically, and otherwise, too.

When I had been active, as commercial pilot, instructor, DC-3, King Air, NA Sabreliner, little more, we tended to not trust anyone else outside of cockpit, and performed "overwatch" and double check on anyone else's jobs, including each others jobs, period. Easy to do in light aircraft where it should be done, not so much so, by necessary design in heavy multisystems aircraft. But why else does 1st officer do a "walkaround" including leaks, pins, nuts, bolts, closures, safeties, and blades, especially blades! Yes, that's how I taught it, too! stories abound of failures, for unimaginable stupid reasons, wherever they can be made, from design, mfg,, maintenance, pilots, etc. it is the nature of the compromise that every aircraft actually is, to design, build, and operate. I had been an engineer, also.

Politics these days should not be a factor in science, nor professionalism, but in real world, countless horror examples do exist, and they do cost lives, by large amounts. So no one should act virtuous, because it has been going on since before Galileo and other greats were killed or threatened with death, torture or imprisonment, by Popes, Kings, and more, for being heretics!

Don't throw fist stone, too many have done so already, wrongly!
webken10
webken10 6
Of course flight attendant deserves kudos, for going above and beyond her duties! So also does the deck crew, captain, for correct actions, in honoring her observations. They all acted in exemplary manor in getting their jobs done well! This became an heroic crew action, in fact! Great team work, when some have not done as well in the world of aviation!
webken10
webken10 2
Of course, flight attendant and crew, all should receive kudos, aplenty, for a heroic catch! She above and beyond her duty, and deck crew for acting appropriately, in response. Exemplary actions, all around!
JohnLussier
I missed where it said the Flight Attendant was, or identified as, a “she”.
dodger4
dodger4 40
This incident is so shocking as to be almost unbelievable. The F/A who reported this to the crew has to be honoured for initiative and observation. He/she underscores the true dependency of the flight deck on ALL CREW MEMBERS.
hanlonr
Ron Hanlon 30
About 25 years ago I was returning to LHR from Tucson via Chicago where I changed planes with AA. The snow was really coming down. The Captain announced that the plane had been de-iced and that we were ready to go. I looked out of the window and saw a very large amount of snow still on the wing. I was worried to say the least so I called the flight attendant and explained my concerns. The first officer was called. He asked for the cabin lights to be dimmed and shone his flashlight out through the window. He thanked me for my observations. An announcement was made that the de-icing crew would be called back. Needless to say that we were late departing and I’m here to tell the tail.
alexa320
That is pretty much standard procedure! Snow and ice can accumulate AFTER being deiced and depending g in taxi time and holdover times. There are also checklist items and flow charts to be used in cases like these. The final check would be looking out the window, just as you described here. Knowing ORD, you likely had a long taxi time with heavy continued snowfall.
Always better being delayed than not arriving at all.....refer Air Florida some 20 years ago and the Potomac river? I do.
strickerje
strickerje 1
Spot on but for one detail... It was almost 40 years ago. :)
alexa320
Yup, I know now. How time flies!!.....
Jaime1949
god bless you flight attendant you may have saved many lives and saved the airline law suits
kerimparrot
The flight attendant may have saved his/her life too.
They should have gotten the whole deicing crew onto that plane in ANY METHOD required.
Propwash122
Peter Fuller 37
Way down the stream of article comments on the onemileatatime.com site, is this one, posted March 4 12:03pm by Levi:

“I operated that flight and the story is a little inaccurate. The real story is we were cleared for takeoff. I had briefed a dead-heading first officer at the gate before we left that I would ask him to check the wings before takeoff. So we took the runway and I called back to get a thumbs up from him, he said he couldn’t see the wings they were covered in ice. That’s when I opened the cockpit window and leaned out to get a better look and saw all the snow and ice. I never had a flight attendant call me to tell me there was still ice on the wings. One of the flight attendants took that picture but none of them called me.”
alexa320
As a former pilot, myself, very believable. Deadheading pilots are very useful in all kinds of situations! Just ask UAL Capt Al Haynes.....
mbrews
mbrews 3
Good find, Peter. Yes the quote from Levi is quite interesting.
ukusapkm07201942
Paul Miller 20
Thank Goodness that the lack of attention care and oversight was found out before that Aircraft got into it's take off mode. How on earth could that deicing set of employees look at the snow still left on the wings and say "it's done good bye and have a great day" ?
richardwoodward
The sole deicing "incident" I experienced was also in Nashville. Delta 757 to Atlanta (duh). Old, burly captain (we walked through security together, where he asked a 20-something guy who cut-off an old lady if he was late for his gynecologist appointment) came over the PA system and advised (as best I recall): "Folks, we're delayed. I don't know how long we're going to be. They ran out of deicing fluid. They said they had to go to the other side of the airport to get more. That was 30 minutes ago. Now they say the heater in the truck is broken and they don't want to come back out. I've called corporate and told them this is bu!! s#!+. They're calling American to get one of their people to deice us. We used to have competent, union people who did this for us - now we subcontract it out to people like this. I'll get us to Atlanta as quickly as possible, once it's safe to take off. Be ready."

I absolutely love 757's...once we went wheels up, we were in Atlanta in no time!
alexa320
Yes, I can relate and also once flew the 757! Great aircraft, even today.
A lot of airport work is contracted out and when these companies pay peanuts, you get high turnover and less than desired work ethics. Happens more than you know.....
LRPenner
That flight attendant deserves honors! Who knows what kind of catastrophe he/she prevented and probably won't get the credit they deserve.
laker150
So much for quality assurance with Trego Dugan Deice at BNA. Someone will be looking for a good lawyer.
craiglgood
Craig Good 5
"It can’t be understated how major this issue could have been."

I miss the days when there were editors.
miami53
Paul Votto 1
Thanks Craig. I knew there was something wrong when I first read that sentence but wasn't sure until I re-read it after your comment. I can't understate how helpful you were! LoL
nathansthepilot
Nathan Cox 3
I notice a lot of comments on the publisher’s website stating that “shouldn’t it be the pilot’s job to check the plane?” It is to a certain degree, but it remains impractical to check for contaminants once you’ve left the gate. On many aircraft the pilot would have to leave the flight deck and go back to the middle section of the aircraft near the wing to access whether the de-icing was done sufficiently. That now compromises the flight deck with a fully fueled aircraft and likely would delay numerous flights since you need 2 pilots to conduct any aircraft movement on the ground safely. At the end of the day we just have to trust all of the resources we have. Truly, this event epitomizes great CRM. Kudos to the flight attendant and possibly the pax who spotted this. This is why we have such a phenomenal safety record compared to many other countries.
yarnoca1
John Yarno 1
I remember a time when both the pilot and the copilot came back and checked the wings before deciding it was safe to take off. I was beginning to wonder if we would be returning to the gate.
Linecapt
As a private pilot and deicing operator/driver at BDL (Bradley airport, Windsor Locks, CT) we spray HOT Type I for frost at the gates on overnight aircraft before they’re loaded for the first flight approximately 1-2 hours before their departures in the wee hours of the morning. Snow, ice, freezing rain, sleet and freezing fog are sprayed with HOT Type I in the deice pad adjacent to rwy 6 allowing for a quick departure after being sprayed with Type I and occasionally Type 4 if the precipitation is still falling. Like others have said, the cockpit view of the wings is limited if not impossible. Certainly the freight operators don’t have any windows on the fuselage to be able to look out let alone being able to get in the back with the containers there, so they’re not checking for contaminants. And I promise you flight crews on passenger carrying aircraft aren’t coming out of the secure cockpit to wander down the aisle to have a looksy out the emergency row exit to check the wings. They all trust the word from the driver of the deicing truck on the radio that “Your aircraft and engines have been inspected and found clean”. Shame on that deicing operator/company.
goegerja
Jack Goeger 3
When flying UA and AC throughout Colorado and into British Columbia and Alberta, I had always seen one of the pilots come and visually inspect the wings after deicing. I can't say if it was 100% inspected by a pilot or if it was only Air Canada requirements.
bidrec
They probably do not do a lot of deicing in Nashville. Going by the photograph they did not deice at all. Deicing fluid is bright orange and comes out of the nozzle at 180 degrees. Anti icing fluid is green and is not heated. So they put unheated propylene glycol on top of ice. I doubt there would be a contractor in Nashville that only does deicing. It is almost certainly done by the ground handling company, probably by baggage handlers doing double or triple duty. Turnover in these jobs is very high and it is probable that the deicer/baggage handler would not have deiced more than a few times before this.
alexa320
I think you nailed it! See my comments above. Along the same lines......
bidrec
I worked at a SWOA, a Special Winter Operations Airport. I cannot find a list of these on google but I doubt that Nashville is one so I doubt the baggage handlers there do much deicing. There is considerable rigmarole to doing the actual deicing. The deicer has to put a harness on over his or her uniform that connects to the bucket that is attached to the cherry picker. The gloves for baggage handling are often not gloves that work to keep your hands warm. The deicing fluid has to be warm which means that the truck has to be started well before takeoff to get the type one up to 180 degrees. This is an issue for the first flight of the day. The heaters on the truck are diesel and of course have to work. Which may have been an issue in this case since I do not see any orange on the wing. And all of this for about eleven dollars an hour.
bidrec
Let me add further that deicing is never done at the gate because deicing has to be done where there is a drain that does not connect to the watershed. Deicing fluid is propylene glycol mixed with water and heated. Anti-icing fluid is propylene glycol with green dye. If the issue is snow but not ice it is permissible to use brooms or a rope thrown over the wing and pulled its length. In the southern US it is permissible to use hot water to deice. I would note that the deicers---one to spray and one to drive the truck---would have been pulled away from their normal job whatever that is.
bobflynotskinner
bob skinner 3
There is a RUMOR that this happened to a different carrier on a different airplane
and that a deadheading Delta pilot asked the F/A to advise the cockpit???
That's all I know for now, but a good catch for whoever it was.
deafsound
I can only assume that this was a mixup between the person that does the deicing and the person that tells the pilots, "all good to go".
At least I hope that was the case. Otherwise, that's just malicious
Mike101361
Lloyd Sharp 2
Wow- a major accident avoided, by a very quick thinking flight attendant.
She showed that she really is part of the flight crew. Pilots can not see critical areas of the aircraft, and rely on the de-icing company to do their job properly.
This was a blatant disregard for safety.
The person(s) operating the de-icing equipment should be fired...and prevented from ever having any type of employment in Aviation.
Kind of like a "No-fly" list, but for Aviation workers, who have done something dangerous that placed an aircraft (or persons) in peril.They shouldn't be allowed to ever touch another aircraft. For the company itself-
The supervisors should be reviewed to find how these very poor deicing employees were trained and placed in that position, and the company looses their contract providing services for aircraft.
carste10
carste10 2
Lack of education and integrity on the part of the de-icing crew. There was more than one individual involved here.
DennisFernkes
I remember as a young business traveler (I was just 25) being delayed in Montreal while our plane was being deiced. We were all waiting to board at the gate and were offered alcoholic beverages for the inconvenience. This was flight TW 848 to Paris on July 11, 1970. This was only my second transoceanic flight, and I had no idea of the significance of deicing until I read these comments. I was not bothered by the inconvenience!
alexa320
Most layman have NO idea the consequences of not de-icing! Most likely think it’s like what you do with your car. Trouble is, the car doesn’t have wings that need to be smooth in order to generate sufficient lift to keep you climbing and in the air!!
ADXbear
ADXbear 2
Comend the Alert Flight Attendant... pilots should not take the word of some ground hacks, do a visual inspection yourself.. just take a minute, have the FAs block the flight deck as they would during flight.. its worth the time dont ya think!
VICTORDOMINATO
SMS will find a corrective action. Close call! Human Factors & Murphy's Law never sleep.
Quirkyfrog
Hard to eliminate the 'human factor'.

How many people have died because of the incompetence of idiots. They walk among us, and are hidden until their idiocy results in people dying.

Wasn't there a plane crash in DC, where the pilots, who only flew in warmer Southern climates, 'forgot' that deicing was a thing in the relative North? They dismissed the possibility that deicing, or lack there of, could bring down a plane so easily.

Physics is a bitch, and those laws can be bent a little if there's room, but you can't break them without paying a huge price.

It's a damn good thing that the flight attendant was able to see a problem, and that the cockpit crew recognized their concern and took immediate action. Many lives were saved. The deicing crew should all be fired, and the management should be charged with negligence. Their stupidity could have cost real human lives! If they believe their services are so unnecessary, perhaps they should have different professions. I'd recommend perhaps propeller testing by having them walk into spinning ones...
Quirkyfrog
So it was a dead heading pilot that alerted the crew. Good for them.

People mentioning 'holdover time', and I remember a convoluted flight through both DTW and MSP, and while sitting on the taxiways to take off at MSP, and waiting for a half hour to deice, we waited for over a half hour to take off, and I looked out at the wings, and they were already completely covered with snow and ice. I mentioned, after my wife complained about the wait, that it's about to get worse. Seconds later, the engines spiked, and we were turning. The pilot came on and said that he was really sorry but we had sat too long, and needed to be deiced again. People grumbled and groaned, and several said that if we hadn't been deiced, the possibility this could be a one way flight would be great.

We deiced, might have taken on more fuel too, and taxied to the end of the runway, and took off. Apparently the rush had dissipated. The pilot said 'Good news, we're first in line, if we can get there quickly' (some had been using the restrooms), and away we went.

I do remember an earlier flight than that where the pilot came on and said that they 'forgot to deice', and we were heading back to do that before we would be able to take off. Some people were surprised: 'He forgot? What else did he forget?' It made me wonder if the airport started deicing while we were taxiing to take off, and we had to go back to do it. I found that a little odd, and disconcerting, the way he said it, but we survived.
jmadunleavy
John D 3
You may be referring to Air Florida flight 90.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Florida_Flight_90

IIRC one of the major failures that day was the Pilot in command apparently believed that the jet exhaust of the plane in front of them would have been sufficient to keep ice from building up (again). I also believe this accident was instrumental in empowering the right seat pilots to override the PIC in situations like this.
RetiredCaptain
Jasper Buck 8
The flight crew failed in a number of ways that day. The FAA and NTSB accident report states:


"The National Transportation Safety Board determines that the probable cause of this accident was the flightcrew's failure to use engine anti-ice during ground operation and takeoff, their decision to take off with snow/ice on the airfoil surfaces of the aircraft, and the Captain's failure to reject the takeoff during the early stage when his attention was called to anomalous engine instrument readings. Contributing to the accident were the prolonged ground delay between deicing and the receipt of ATC takeoff clearance during which the airplane was exposed to continual precipitation, the known inherent pitchup characteristics of the B-737 aircraft when the leading edge is contaminated with even small amounts of snow or ice, and the limited experience of the flightcrew in jet transport winter operations."

The full report can be found here.

https://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives/maintenance_hf/library/documents/media/aviation_maintenance/airflorida_inc.pdf

Brings back some bad (and vivid) memories. My wife was just getting on the 14th Street bridge (they had left DC early because of the snow), in a car pool, when the accident happened. She remembers seeing the airplane hitting the bridge but it happened so fast she wasn't sure what she had seen. I was still at the office. Her car pool was able to get off the bridge by turning around and getting back to DC. She called me from the US Mint building and we ended up saying downtown in a hotel. At about the same time my boss (the number 2 guy at the FAA) called after he got a call from the command center informing him of the accident and assigned me to head up the local FAA team. About 30 of us from the FAA and NTSB managed to meet at hanger 6 at DCA (the FAA's hanger), started gathering information, and finally called it a night at midnight. What mess. But in the end all the fingers pointed to the flight crew. Air Florida management didn't take too kindly to our assessment of the flight crew's performance at a meeting a couple of months later. Soon after we did a top down review of Air Florida's operations, discovered that they were using their manuals and procedures on a sometimes basis. We proposed to ground them for 30 days while they revamped their management and operational procedures and soon after that that they went out of business. Forever. I've never dealt with such nasty people. Except perhaps Herb Kelleher at SWA.

Best

Capt. J Buck

bbabis
bbabis 3
They simply did not use all the power available to them due to erroneous thrust setting readings caused by engine icing. At almost any time before impact, instead of discussing the poor performance, if either pilot had just pushed the power levers up, the plane would have flown away.
jeffinsydney
jeff slack 2
Air Florida;
Air Florida Flight 90 crashed in the Potomac River 37 years ...www.usatoday.com › story › news › nation › 2019/01/13
13/01/2019 — 13, a similar storm pounded the D.C. area and led to one of the most haunting tragedies in the city's history: the crash of Air Florida Flight 90 into the icy depths of the Potomac River. It was a pre-digital, pre-cable universe on that bleak Wednesday afternoon in 1982.
blackstock
I had made comments below about how the cockpit crew failed to inspect the aircraft, yet you make a good point.

The flight attendant felt empowered enough to approach the cockpit crew with something that did not seem right. And in the same token, the cockpit crew took the concern seriously and reacted. This is how it’s supposed to work in CRM practice and I’m glad it did. Yet in my eyes, they move one notch down the crash chain of events to do so. That is, they broke the chain but I hope there is some serious “postmortem” review that highlights all the places they could have stopped this chain sooner. Even going back to management’s oversight and selection of the vendors.
Foxinthehouse1
I am reading many comments about how the Capt or F/O did not get and inspect. On larger airliners and even regional jets deicing is done after pushback and aircraft is ready to go. Not when it's sitting there still boarding. When the operation is being done the engines or APU is running and flight crew getting ready to depart as quick as possible. It shows that a lot of you are either un knowledgeable of actual airport operations, or stuck on the Air Florida accident as a total basis of your critiquing.
MikeMohle
Mike Mohle 6
Uh, do you fly airplanes? You know that the PILOT and only the pilot(s) are responsible for the safety of the aircraft and anyone on it. They have the SOLE responsibility to determine if the aircraft is acceptable for flight. If needed they can take ANY MEASURE needed to make that determination. Walking back to the cabin to make an observation, rather than relying on a non-pilot, is a very basic task to ensure their responsibility is fulfilled. Flying in the north for years, I have eagerly taken the walk to check the wings, and have received positive comments from passengers for doing so. Hey, I want the airplane safe too and my a## and Certificate are on the line if anything was to happen.
alexa320
Well, if you dig deeper in the report, you will find one of the pilots saying that the news story was a bit inaccurate. It was, in fact a deadheading pilot that went back for a VISUAL inspection that resulted the airplane return.
And yes, I’m a former 121 pilot, having flown both Boeings and an Airbus, too. I’ve also de-iced a few times to boot, so I know the procedure and what happens. Hopefully, you’ve leaned something today.
ravanviman
hal pushpak 2
I hope the f/a is recognised properly. He/She saved the day. The whole crew is supposed to perform as a team -- and they did. Good job!
k1121j
TO THIONK JUST FROST ON THE WINGS AND REDUCE LIFT BY 40% SCARY
FrankBarber
I am surprised that the crew did not inspect the aircraft after deicing. Our OPS manual requires it.
bidrec
A member of the deicing 'crew' will inspect the aircraft by leaving the truck and running their bare hand down the leading edge of the wing. The aircraft crew cannot open the door after they have left the gate (and popped the brake). Once they shut the door and leave the gate they have 'departed' it does not matter how long it takes to deice.
DTBMF
"Why Clem...ain't we surpossed to git that there stuff off the wings?" "Naaa, its cold out, lets git inside and warm up."
jaymd123
Question, with so many deicing related incidents over the years, why can’t they mandate a visual check by the pilots? I’m sure it has something to do with sterile cockpit procedures but surely those could be amended in this case?
darjr26
darjr26 1
I really doubt there was a foot of snow on the aircraft’s surfaces. To cling to the surfaces it would have to be wet snow and I can’t believe any flight crew would taxi an aircraft in that condition. I also don’t think Type I deicing fluid can remove that much snow and ice and you don’t put type IV anti-icing fluid on a contaminated wing. This had to have been the worst aircraft deicing in history or there’s a lot more to this story then what has been written in the article.
JMARTINSON
JMARTINSON 1
Not to mention the last time Nashville saw that much snow in one night is never.

I didn't really need to look it up but I did anyway.
cparks
cparks 1
I don’t know if there is such a thing as attempted negligent homicide but maybe there should be.
tekboss
That this situation could occur in 2021 is unbelievable. What the heck is going on at our airports?
PKVol
I live in Nashville and the "snowstorm" we had dropped 3-5" from early evening on the 17 Feb to mid-day 18 Feb so I'm perplexed as to how "about a foot of snow" on the wings. This was not a blowing snow event, so drifting should have been minimal.
JMARTINSON
JMARTINSON 1
Patrick, good thing I found you because it's too early in the week to lose my mind. A foot? In one night? In Nashville? The mental image of an airliner pushing back while covered with that much snow... in Nashville. Not at some military base in the arctic or siberia somewhere, but in Nashville. It's just too much.
allen7347
As a non-pilot but observant traveler I pose the following deicing question to pilots and engineers:
why aren't warming elements built into the wing and upper fuselage surfaces to melt ice and snow, something like radiant heating? Besides not having to wait for deicing trucks, which can sometimes add an hour to a flight, it would eliminate the significant expense added by the current method.
bidrec
Pitot tubes are heated but they are small. Dash 8's have rubber boots for mechanical deicing of the leading edge of the wing. Also ice is not ice, that is ice at 30 degrees is going to be easy to melt. Ice at 0 degrees is going to be almost impossible. Large antennas can be 'detuned' when ice forms on them and no amount of power will melt the ice even when power comes from a local generator that does not have to be flown around.
mbrews
mbrews 2
Short answers - 1) Carries around extra weight , to be used only x % of the time.
2) Adds significant electrical kW demand, which affects sizing of gen & distribution.
3) Since many parts of wing assembly are moveable - requires many flex conductors needing maintenance, so they don't jam the flaps & spoilers

Better to invest in training up places like BNA. Snow removal is not a popular job field.

Reminds of the old VW beetle commercial - how does the snowplow driver get to the plow truck from home on a snowy morning ??
bidrec
I am sure that Frontier invested in training in Nashville (captive vendors do not have training budgets). The problem with this sort of job is rapid turnover. Job applicants who need a job will accept one not at the airport before the airport completes the background check. They apply in March are offered employment in September by which time they are already working elsewhere.
It is possible to have a sort of bunching of skills where one person on the shift with a whole three years of time on the job will be the only person trained to deice, to airstart, to pushback, etc., because everyone else on the shift has been there less than six months and has not completed training.
mmc7090
mmc7090 1
1980s crew took a broom to "those flipper things" on the wing and left the rest covered. You pay peanuts you get monkeys.
blackstock
The first officer or captain did not look before taxi?
MikeMohle
Mike Mohle 5
The wings are not visible from the cockpit, but does not mean that the Capt/FO could not go back in the cabin and take a look. Great move by the FA, saw something, said something IMMEDIATELY, CRM at work. Now the Deicing contractor needs to implement the same procedures....
punkrawk78
Silent Bob 5
At my airline, not the one featured here, we do not visually inspect the wings after deicing unless a holdover time is exceeded or there is heavy snow present. In that case one pilot will go back to the cabin and look through an exit row window to check. Otherwise we accept the deice crew's word that the aircraft is clean, and just before takeoff we verify that parts we can see - windshield wipers, wing tips, or leading edge(s) are free of contamination.
RetiredCaptain
Jasper Buck 5
WWhat you described is a very common (and safe) practice. Most folks don't know about deicing fluids or procedures, holdover times, etc. Millions of flights operate safely after being deiced and rarely is the an incident or accident attributable to the procedure. Air Florida 90 and Continental 1713 in 1985 are some of the few exceptions. I was a FAA team member on both investigations. In the case of CA 1713 The NTSB investigation of the accident determined that the most probable cause of the accident was the failure, on the part of the pilot in command, to have the aircraft de-iced a second time before take-off. (IOW exceeded his holdover time.)

Best
patpylot
jasper: feel free to add those things you know, for you have the authoratative voice. Once i have read your thoughts i feel as if i had a good meal, not overstuffed, but well-fed.
alexa320
You can always tell the difference between those that know and those that assume....
VICTORDOMINATO
SOP! I am sure its there.
emkostiuk
emkostiuk 4
Sadly, most don't believe it or not I have witnessed way too many not conducting a pre-flight no matter how big or small. I have a very dear friend Sr. Airline Capt 25,000 hours who jumps in his private bird w/o checking. Saw him one day ready to crank up walked over to his bird and said did you mean to leave the tow bar on your plane. He jumped out of the cockpit so quick.
blackstock
By taxi, I mean pushback. Nevertheless, one would think that with extraordinary weather that a quick look would be in order. It’s not unheard of that one of the crew will shine a flashlight through a window with wing, leading edge view during such conditions. It only takes a moment and does not interrupt work task flow.

I never choose flying as a career but I’m grateful that I was exposed to some really professional pilots when I first started learning.
patpylot
patrick baker -1
i might want to know the policies and procedures for cold-weather airlines Air Canada and Finnish AIrlines concerning their operations when temps fall below freezing, when snow and ice are present.
tsleeter
Tom Sleeter -2
The pilot should have checked the wings prior to leaving the gate and if they were detained on the ground after leaving the gate.
Foxinthehouse1
Aircraft are not de-iced at the gate anymore. They are service as close to take off as possible for hold over times on the fluids.
jbayter
jbayter -5
That was mediocrity at its best, but “about a foot of snow” won’t bring an airplane down.
dodger4
dodger4 1
It certainly WILL. Does nobody recall the Dryden accident??
GaAubie
Ken Hardy -9
That's what you get with a Second Officer kick the tires walk around, deicing is to important to just leave to just anyone to catch lucky here, remember the Air Florida Washington fiasco that didn't have to happen.
Foxinthehouse1
Do you understand how De-icing operations work at airports currently? Your comment gives me impression you are not. When aircraft like this are de-icing or getting anti icing applied they are off the gate in a designated area close to the active runway as the fluids have short hold over times before their abilities wear off. This will also have them running engines or at min APU for a short time to taxi and take off. Flight crew do not get out and inspect after operations and rely on steards/ess to look and the de-icing people to do their job correctly.
GaAubie
Ken Hardy 0
Yes, I know how deicing works at a airport When flying in known icing conditions, its common for a good cockpit crew to watch for ice buildup at all times until they advance power for take off roll, there is no excuse for not knowing if you have a potential problem with ice, just as there is not knowing if you have the correct amount of fuel on board. Many hours in a C-141 taught me to not trust others when I can do a preflight because its my ass that's going down if some ground crew screwed up.

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