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Boeing Workers Protest Angrily Against Vaccination Mandate

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Several hundred anti-vaccination protesters, most of them Boeing blue-collar workers, voiced loud and angry opposition to the company’s newly announced vaccine mandate Friday outside the Machinists union hall in Everett. (www.seattletimes.com) Daha Fazlası...

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jetserf
jetserf 12
That an odd title. Has anyone ever protested happily?
boughbw
boughbw 11
Only the gruntled.
DGR54Rathborne
DGR Rathborne 20
Too Vax or not to Vax , This is the question . I'm in Toronto , Canada . I just had my 3rd dose , due to a health condition ,and my seasonal Flu shot . Is my Gov't stripping me of my freedoms ? NO . They are trying to save my life ,from the worst pandemic , since the Spanish Flu . And if i may add this . When i go about my life ,i no longer have to worry about catching this killer , and i can't express how happy this makes me feel . I accept that my comment will spark a fire storm . Oh , bye the way , i still wear a mask ........DGR
mutrock
Mark Kortum 13
To vax or not to vax is not the question these persons are protesting. To obey or not to obey is their question.
21voyageur
Dan Chiasson 15
If it's THAT important to them to not vax, they can choose to not comply and "speak" with their boots and quit. The concept of "for the betterment of all" somehow seems to be of no value to these anti-vaxers. Can't get more selfish than that IMHO. C-19 has exposed an ugly side of society globally. Sad.
sledogpilot
Duane Mader 3
It’s not polio or smallpox. The vaccinated are carrying just as large a viral load as the unvaxxed and are able to spread it. It’s a coronavirus and it’s mutating around the vaccine just like the flu. You’re not saving humanity by being vaccinated.
overpar56
Steve Stein -2
Shouldn’t you be on OAN’s Q thread?

My god, what people will believe from quazy kooks on social media.

There is no active virus in the vax, and if we do get a breakthrough, the viral load is typically lower and recovery quicker.

We all lined up for the polio vax in the 60’s. No one complained.

As for workers refusing to get the jab, that’s your choice. You pay the price. Just don’t expect government handouts like unemployment.
sledogpilot
Duane Mader 3
Of course there is no active virus in a mRNA vax. Nor is it a killed virus vaccine like a conventional virus
You are getting and carrying the virus just like everyone else eg UC Davis study.
Coronaviruses are NOT polio or smallpox. They mutate to survive vaccines. Do flu vaccines stop flu?
You are not stopping the spread by being vaxxed, you are not saving humanity
stanlaurelhair
James Fawls 1
Mr. Stein, were you on board when the President advised the American people that the injections would be voluntary? If so, then when did the authoritarian impulse rise up in you? Your comments (e.g. viral load) are wrong and your snark is childish.
garritt
garritt -1
do you belong to 'Q' ?
sledogpilot
Duane Mader 2
I’m talking about numerous studies that show vaxxed are carrying the virus and are getting COvid. Eg. UC Davis
I’m talking about your saying that the vaccinated are somehow at risk from the unvaccinated, what logic is that?
If you want to believe the vaccines could end this you are living in a dream world but you’re welcome to it.
What the heck are YOU talking about
garritt
garritt 0
So when you say you have studied this I assume you have advanced degrees in cellular biology...& have done double bling tests for months..............if not ,your ignorance is obvious....but I might be wrong if you are just stupid.....if your employer wants you to wear a uniform for your
position, you wear it or quit....period....if not happy just buy the corporation & change the rules
srobak
srobak 0
Moreover it has exposed the ugly side of government - and very globally - which is even more sad. In case you haven't been paying attention - people are standing up for themselves and either resigning or being fired rather than taking the shot, and in massive, massive numbers.
garritt
garritt -5
those that will not comply with their employer/government/business they want to enter......go away & leave the other 70 PLUS % of America alone.....stay away.....go away...don't come back
A6SEA
Bill Butler 4
you, sir/maam/it/whatever are a part of the problem. Who set you up to be judge and jury?
BradWebster
Brad Webster 15
It should always be just a personal decision. If you believe in the shots then good for your situation.
waypoint66
David Rice 1
Just like aircraft maintenance, right? If an airline wants to do maintenance, fine. If they choose to skip maintenance, then that’s ok too, right?
AlanGlover
Alan Glover 9
As long as I have a choice as to what
airline to use, no probs.

Crappy analogy, Karen.
jimsarushfan
Huck Finn 4
Mister Rathborne, wear your mask and take your vaccine but if I choose not to that ain't your business. I've had the flu and survived. I have never worn a mask nor will I start. I don't fly because I'm not wearing a mask. The mask is a symbol of authoritarian oppression which seems to be a glowing ember in Canada getting ready to flare up into a very heated assault on civil liberties in your country. We here in the colonies (USA) decide for ourselves much to the chagrin of the tyrant wannabes.
AlanGlover
Alan Glover 8
Comply as you wish. I am provax but vehemently anti-mandate and anti-fear.
boughbw
boughbw 4
You're obviously pro-fear as the mandate isn't that big of a deal. Union employees in a factory? They deal with more invasive requests as part of their duties in maintaining occupational health all the time: hard hats, goggles, masks, in some places respirators, various types of gloves and other PPE, hygiene requirements, probably tetanus shots, and undergoing annual physical examinations... One or two shots of a vaccine that tens of millions of people have taken with only the mildest of side-effects occurring on any appreciable basis? Stop mongering fear over the vaccine.
srobak
srobak 7
This is flatly false information. NONE of those things you listed other than tetanus is invasive by any means. Tetanus has been around for generations, and exhaustively tested over several years before being released upon the public for VOLUNTARY consumption. If you check the history - you will also notice the first two attempts at it were failures and did not get approved.

Mild side effects? Several countries in Europe are reporting a 50% increase in myocarditis in people aged 25-50 in JUST the last 5 months (their vax mandate was in Q1). This is after several years of it trending down at about -4% annually. Israel's post-vax study should be quite alarming as well. Just because your government isn't telling you the reality doesn't mean it isn't happening.

It's not fear if it is true.

And you should absolutely fear someone else telling you - FORCING YOU - to put something into your body. Or putting your livelihood in jeopardy if you do not comply. You should fear it and you should absolutely push back on that. Your body - your choice.
boughbw
boughbw 8
This myocarditis is mild and relatively rare, completely treatable, and a known issue for which medical staff and the patient are informed -- far rarer than the death rate from COVID-19 infection.

Tell the anti-mask nuts how uninvasive all that PPE is, please. These clowns keep comparing having to wear a mask when indoors around others to the Holocaust.

As for the tetanus vaccination, see what your health insurer/employer does if you refuse it (particularly after a workplace accident) and develop lockjaw. And when was that vaccine developed? Was that something recent? 6.8 billion doses of the various COVID-19 vaccines have been administered -- we know more than enough to call them safe and effective.

An overwhelming number of these protesters' coworkers disagree with your argument. Already what goes into their arguments is regulated as a condition of employment, including alcohol, marijuana (which is legal in Washington), and illicit drugs. If they find this unacceptable, they can find work elsewhere. It's their choice.
jhal
John Haller 1
There was a study in mice, and if MRNA was injected into a vein or artery, that the mice had a much higher chance of getting myocarditis. It's possible that aspirating the needle to ensure that it's not in a blood vessel might be enough to prevent myocarditis. No corresponding study had been done in humans, and aspirating needles has gone out of fashion.
sledogpilot
Duane Mader 1
If the mRNA shot stopped the virus stopped the spread like polio or smallpox vaccines it would be a different story. THIS story is just about control, I’m with you Alan.
Shocker7777
Shocker7777 5
DGR you are so misinformed. I personally know several individuals whom are fully vaccinated that still suffered from the virus and were spreaders of it. The virus is has a 99% survival rate, I had it twice in 2020 and have since been exposed to it many times without ill effect. The human immune system is a great weapon against it, not some manufactured mrna. The politics surrounding this mess is disturbing. God Bless.
noltus
Tom Nolte 3
You are not protected and can and likely will still get covid. Sheep to the slaughter.
srobak
srobak 2
Are they stripping you of your freedom? YES. Your freedom to choose what happens to and in your own body. Period.

The worst pandemic since the spanish flu? No. That would be cancer and heart disease... both of which the gov is doing JACK SHIT about.

USPOP: 332,800,000 (census.gov)
USCOVID: 45,300,000 (cdc.gov)

13.6% of population is infected. 1.3 in every 10 people.

USCOVDEAD: 733,000 (cdc.gov)

1.61% of infected die. 98.39% of those infected survive.
0.22% of USPOP die. 99.78% of all people in the US survive.

(rounding)

3 of every 200 infected die.
1 out of every 500 people die.

Simple. Basic. Math.

More die from heart disease every.single.year for the last 4 decades. A higher annual rate than covid.
More die from cancer every.single.year for the last 5 decades. A higher annual rate than covid.

That is your pandemic.

You're vaxxed and you wear a mask? Why? If the vax works you don't need it. You have succumbed to the paranoia your government has instilled upon you. Yet another freedom you have been stripped of: Free and independent thought.

Come back and talk to us in a few more months about your myocarditis.
bobtheman
Tim Smith 5
Bla bla bla Jesus give it up.
srobak
srobak -3
awwww... someone doesn't like basic math revealing the facts? Too bad for you.
bobtheman
Tim Smith 4
Nope not at all if you don’t want to get vaccinated then don’t , I am just sick of hearing about it. I don’t give a shit if you do or don't, just like I don’t care if you wear your seat belt or wear shoes in a restaurant or all the other mandates you comply with every day. A bunch of people with brains says it’s a good idea to get it so I listen to them not the government not you or anyone else who has access to google.
srobak
srobak -2
ah - so because you don't care about it is why you decided to participate in the thread, and more specifically why you decided to comment only on MY post, which simply posted hard, factual numbers - which clearly contradict the narrative.

Yeah - got it. Ok.
bobtheman
Tim Smith 4
Nope like I said I am just sick of people whining like little babies, how many said they weren’t going to get and regretted that decision. Just saying.
srobak
srobak -1
You mean like the people whining like little babies about the protestors?

I can assure you that fewer people who didn't get it are regretting it than those who did get it an are.

Again - if you didn't care - as you claim - you would not be wasting the keystrokes here to prove to us all how much you don't.

Just saying.
hortod1
dj horton 4
Neither cancer nor heart disease are pandemics. Last I checked you can’t catch either one of those by being in the vicinity of an infected person.
srobak
srobak 0
pan·dem·ic
/panˈdemik/

adjective
(of a disease) prevalent over a whole country or the world.

---

contagion does not define pandemic.
hortod1
dj horton 2
Uh huh. Glad to see you can copy and paste the bare minimum from Wikipedia. The full explanation of course is far more detailed. Now put on your big-boy pants and do some real research. Maybe start with the WHO - you know, where they have actual scientists, maybe an epidemiologists or two? Or is that too much ‘fake news’
srobak
srobak 0
That's from webster, you dolt. it is one of a few definitions... yet it is also the first (read: primary) definition. For you NOT to consider other diseases as pandemics is highly obtuse of you.
hortod1
dj horton 1
Also from Webster:

flu noun

Log In
\ ˈflü \
Definition of flu
1 : INFLUENZA
2 : any of several virus diseases marked especially by respiratory or intestinal symptoms

Nowhere does Webster mention it’s contagious, so based on your argument, it’s not contagious. Brilliant deduction Sherlock.

Sad, really.
overpar56
Steve Stein -2
The level of misinformation is outstanding. Yeah, heart disease, cancer do kill more people worldwide and some is preventable. In the U.S., our healthcare system is so bad because Republicans refuse to address it. Healthcare isn’t just hospitalization. It’s also access to care, education in schools, and prevention. We fail on all these. But your freedoms BS…

Just had a checkup. My heart is fine after two jabs and got my third. Myocarditis is extremely rare. In young adults and adolescents, the rate is 5 per 100,000. No fatalities. No long-term effects. Reference NIH study done by Israeli Defense Forces using the Pfizer vax and after two shots. 7 were hospitalized from 1 to 5 days and all were released with no further symptoms.

As long as there remain unvaccinated individuals, we’ll have Covid. We’ll never get rid of it.

Yeah, people have died after being vaccinated and catching Covid. When Covid continues to mutate, the vaxes are challenged. We’ve seen this with Delta. Two fully-vaxed family members in hospital healthcare got a breakthrough. One has asthma. She probably would have died w/o the Pfizer. Pulse O2 dropped to 90. Almost hospitalized. Recovered in 7 days or so and was riding her bike in two weeks. Not bad for a 60 year old.

I’ve been on a ventilator post-surgery. Waking up with a pipe down your throat is the worst feeling. I wouldn’t want to see anyone going on one for something preventable like Covid.

So let me ask you this: What if there was a major biological weapon attack where the only way to keep from dying was getting a vaccination? Would you do it or would you just gut it out?
mmc7090
mmc7090 2
Canada arrest Pastors who preach the gospel. John MacArthur used science to nail these vaxholes to the cross. Screw Canada just another Londonstan
Ginabedina
Gina Davis 2
So glad you feel secure but people are getting, giving snd dying from covid after being vaccinated. I personally know 3 people in the last 6 weeks.
CPAIR007
JASON AWID 1
DGR ..fellow CANUCK here ... Totally with you on this ..2 shots here ...
Phoenix2013
Deb atkinson -4
Sorry that you're are such a scared little sheep!! That's how tyranny works...Just because you agree this time with the mandate, doesn't mean that you will agree with next mandate they shove down your throat. It's not about the vaccine, it's about your personal freedom to choose. Government should only provide a solution and leave the populace to choose. . If you believe so much in the vaccine, then why worry what everyone else does? God gave us immunity...that's what I believe in.
hulakai
Kevin Holly 0
Screw you, you selfish pos. It's not about YOU and YOUR body....it's about stopping the spread so that others don't get it. But you're too caught up in your BS conspiracy theories to see the simple logic of it.
srobak
srobak 2
you clearly haven't been paying attention. the vax has not been stopping the spread. the vaxxed are getting it. the vaxxed are spreading it to each other. the vaxxed are spreading it to the unvaxxed. but you are too caught up in political propaganda and bs narratives to see the simple reality of it.
DTBMF
If you mean not paying attention to fox, one amurika and newslax you are correct.
waypoint66
David Rice -7
Not sure why my comment wasn’t posted as a reply to you, FA crappy website.
srobak
srobak 0
Because you didn't click reply on the appropriate post or comment. FA's threading works perfectly well - if you know how to use it.
hortod1
dj horton 8
“…chanting anti-government slogans”

Remind us all who your biggest customer is? Oh yeah… the government

If you’re that concerned about safety how about you build an airplane that doesn’t fall out of the sky.
srobak
srobak -2
Sorry - which aircraft for the government is boeing currently producing? Other than AF1.
tnbriggs
Big order for tankers. https://www.boeing.com/defense/kc-46a-pegasus-tanker/
srobak
srobak 0
uh huh.... and how's that going? can't be cleared for operational use and DoD has already started shopping for it's replacement & looking to have it replaced (read: parked at AMARC) inside a decade - meanwhile the 135 will keep going. When was it that the last 46 rolled off the line? It's certainly been a while... and DoD is about an inch away from cancelling the rest of that contract - in case you missed the news.
Umhlatuze
David Teague 11
I simply cannot believe that so many educated people still choose to follow the advice of the few crazy academics seeking their few moments of social media fame instead of the vast majority of real experts all over the world. The simple facts are clear for anyone to see, vaccinated people are simply not dying because of the Covid-19 virus. Perhaps Boeing should weed out these irresponsible idiots anyway.
AlanGlover
Alan Glover 11
You don't get around much, do you?

The argument isn't about whether or not the vax works overall.

It's whether or not one should be compelled to take it.

The PLA are looking for a lot of compliant men.
mutrock
Mark Kortum 11
Issues about freedom of choice seem to be harder and harder for people to understand. It is as if they have been conditioned not to think that way.
boughbw
boughbw 0
That is because this matter isn't about "personal freedom," it is about is about public health. We are all obligated to do our part. Trying to re-conceive being a disease vector as a right just demonstrates that rights without responsibilities is just freedumb.
AlanGlover
Alan Glover 4
And there we have the argument for giving the power to the government to do whatever they want.

CCP, anyone?
boughbw
boughbw 1
"Slippery slope" is a fallacy. However, you failed to address the fact that you have no inherent right to communicate diseases to others.
srobak
srobak 1
fallacy? dude you seriously need to crack open a history book and read for a few hours.
boughbw
boughbw -2
Because requiring people to be vaccinated to stop a pandemic has typically led to "the government just telling people to do whatever they want"? Name one time.

And "slippery slope" is a logical fallacy. That is because if there is any resistance to the rather mild vaccine mandate, there would be even more resistance to something that is actually intrusive, making such an action and outcome even less likely rather than more likely.
srobak
srobak 4
Mild vaccine mandate? Man you are smoking WAY too much of your own product. a 50% jump in myocarditis is not "mild". Putting people's livelihoods in jeopardy and threatening to criminalize vax refusal is not "mild". Coercion, punishment, criminalization and carrot/stick is the very anti-sentiment of all things "mild".
boughbw
boughbw -2
It isn't criminalized. No one is being "coerced" or "punished." If you don't like the conditions of employment, work elsewhere. How is that so hard for you to comprehend? It isn't that difficult for the overwhelming majority of the protesters' coworkers who are not protesting. And it is a mild vaccine mandate because people aren't being forcibly injected with the vaccines. You can totally choose not to get vaccinated. That means you are choosing whether you want to remain employed. At-will employment seems to apply perfectly well given that the union and employer are in complete agreement.
srobak
srobak 2
That is patent bs. Pay attention this time.

They are and have been threatening to criminalize it - at the federal level, and at some state levels. Yes - "do this or else" is literally the very definition of coercion. Some states have even created vax lotteries or rewards for if you get the shot. Way back when - deblazo even went on tv trying to talk through munching on fries, saying "if you get the shot you will get free fries". I forget what state it was that would put you into a million dollar lottery if you got the shot. Other states and some businesses give you $100 in cash, others a $500 gift card, yadda yadda....

l i t e r a l l y - the very definition of coercion. How is THAT so hard for YOU to comprehend?

An invasive, questionable injection should never be a condition of employment. If it is - then that is not somewhere that people should work. And in case you haven't noticed - people of all walks of life or resigning, willingly being terminated, or in fact switching employers if not careers to make that message crystal clear.

When the HMFIC says he is going to send people door to door to force people to take the vax - that is not a mild mandate. A mandate is a mandate - period. It is either mandatory or it is not. President Pudding has mandated it for all federal employees (except politicians and their employees of course... rules for thee but not for meeeee!). When he goes on tv and tells every company in the nation they need to follow his mandate - that is not "mild".

Unions are standing up against this. They have filed lawsuits challenging it. Individuals are standing up to this and have filed suits as well. Your "overwhelming majority" is very underwhelming when people are standing up against this in droves.
srobak
srobak 3
Public health? Right.

USPOP: 332,800,000 (census.gov)
USCOVID: 45,300,000 (cdc.gov)

13.6% of population is infected. 1.3 in every 10 people.

USCOVDEAD: 733,000 (cdc.gov)

1.61% of infected die. 98.39% of those infected survive.
0.22% of USPOP die. 99.78% of all people in the US survive.

(rounding)

3 of every 200 infected die.
1 out of every 500 people die.

Simple. Basic. Math.

More die from heart disease every.single.year for the last 4 decades. A higher annual rate than covid.
More die from cancer every.single.year for the last 5 decades. A higher annual rate than covid.
Umhlatuze
Wait until several members of your own family and close friends either die or become severely ill with this virus, you may just do the responsible thing and get vaccinated. Yes, there is still a good chance of eventually becoming infected but the huge difference is that you will stand a far better chance of not getting severely ill and landing up in a box or ICU.
srobak
srobak 2
I've had it. 3 family members here in town have had it. 2 of them got it more than a couple months after the vax. The vax did nothing. The one thing it is not, is a vaccine.
NX211
NX211 2
Boughbw, It is NOT my obligation to protect you just as you have no obligation to protect me. Your obligation is to protect yourself and others that you choose.
boughbw
boughbw 3
The government in the United States is directed explicitly "to promote the General Welfare" (Constitution, Article I, Section 8).

Further, you and I both are obligated to protect one another. It is a moral obligation, and in some instances it is a legal obligation.

But thank you for the honesty -- you are just in it all for yourself and you are the only one who matters in your life, no matter how many people are ironically affected by your egocentrism. It is fun to turn your logic on your argument: no one cares what you think.
sledogpilot
Duane Mader 2
You’re not stopping the spread by getting vaxxed. UC Davis study. The virus is mutating around the vaccine. BTW speaking of vectors, where is the natural vector in nature that Covid supposedly came from, usually that’s found in the first few months of a pandemic.
ColinSeftel
Vaccination has been proven to reduce transmission. You'll find the science here: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.09.28.21264260v1
srobak
srobak 1
ah that must be why 40% of the people with covid in hospitals now have been previously vaxxed - because it reduces transmission. Got it.
victorbravo77
Got a link to that 40 percent?
srobak
srobak 2
https://buffalonews.com/news/local/parsing-the-numbers-why-vaccinated-residents-made-up-40-of-erie-countys-positive-covid-19/article_641c4a84-10da-11ec-a720-cf5c0cc41444.html
Umhlatuze
In our country, almost every patient in ICU suffering the effects of this virus have not been vaccinated. A sobering statistic is that the USA has lost more lives due to Covid-19 in the last 3 days than China has lost in the last 2 years.
srobak
srobak 2
We've had under 1300 deaths in the last 3 days from (supposedly) covid. That's less than china. They are also claiming to have only 98,000 cases total... which is flatly laughable. If you think the country that weaponized this thing in the first place is being anything close to truthful - you are out of your mind. They are not truthful about things to their own people about anything - you seriously think they are being truthful to the rest of the globe??
Frosty1025
Frosty1025 2
Italian Department of Health revises all-time Covid deaths down from 130,000+ to… 3783.
jimsarushfan
Huck Finn 2
Ever hear of Colin Powell?
srobak
srobak 0
You're right. Vaccinated people are dying due to myocarditis, instead of covid.
jayson01
Jay Jackson 3
I wonder if they would be protesting if it were a work requirement vs a gov't mandate?
srobak
srobak 5
of course they would, and they should
Ginabedina
Gina Davis 4
PS I support these workers. Keep standing strong people.
garritt
garritt 3
most of these workers are vacced......only a few loud mouthed anti-American are making a lot of noise
jhakunti
To the Christians who live in Christ and have no fear in this life and whom have utmost faith in Father GOD Almighty, there are several bible references to use justifying not being vaccinated. Dont be fooled by false believers who say that you must wait for a mortal man to decree God's will when you already know God's will in your heart. Here is the strongest verse to referencce.

Rom 8:1-11

also Jesus Christ said blessed is he who trusts in God.
expilot38
Shame most of these posts don't look at facts. The Jab is dangerous for some people and it has not been tested in the long haul.
md69
I keep seeing comments like "it has not been tested in the long haul" all over social media. The virus was first discovered just under 2 years ago. The first vaccine was released 10 months ago. How do you propose that it be tested "in the long haul"?

Asking for a friend.
gharkness
You are correct that it has not been tested in the long haul….THAT IS THE POINT. One should not EVER be forced to take any medical procedure of any sort, but one that has unknown and HIGHLY likely side effects - it’s literally criminal to force someone to take it.
md69
And how do you suggest it be tested in the long haul? Again, asking for a friend.

Out of everyone I know who has had the jab (me & my wife, my in-laws, my son, friends & colleagues), the one who had the worst reaction was my wife. She had the jab on a Saturday morning then 6 or 7 hours later felt lousy as though she had the flu. Spent the following day (Mother's Day) in bed and then was fit and raring to go to work on the Monday. When she had the second jab - no reaction.

I suffered with a sore arm for around 72 hours after the first jab, and around 24 hours after the second.

What are these HIGHLY likely side effects you speak of?
srobak
srobak 0
How to test it in the long haul? By administering to a select group of WILLING participants. By NOT Mandating it for everyone and threatening their livelihoods if they do not comply. The polio vax had more than 3 years of testing before it was rolled out.

As far as side effects - several countries in Europe and also Israel are reporting 50% increases in myocarditis in the last 5 months. Europe had been trending down at -4% a year for several years. They also had the bulk of their population mandated into vax by the end of Q1.
wlhamaty
Luke Hamaty 2
Meanwhile the virus rages on, infecting an unwilling control group. That's right: the virus doesn't recognize your "rights" or "personal choice". Administering to a select group of willing participants is what they did. The polio vax was developed over 60 years ago. There has been more than a little bit of development in the medical field over, well, a lifetime. Too, the mRNA vaccines have been in development for decades, and the basic safety profile was tested.
As far as myocarditis and that 50% number, whenever you see numbers like this you should always ask: "what is the base rate?". It is far easier for a small sample to fluctuate wildly. Myocarditis is rare in the general population and particularly rare among younger people. Is -4% statistically significant? Is +50%? Too, how many of those increased cases are mild and go away without intervention? How does that compare with the experience of the unvaccinated population? How does that compare with the unvaccinated who get the virus?
mutrock
Mark Kortum 0
These vaccines have not been tested like most other drugs are tested. We, the people, are the final test. So far the test is going fairly well, but anyone who says they know long-term efficacy and safety is fibbing.
AlanGlover
Alan Glover 1
True but not the point.

It is the mandatory nature of the edict that is the problem.

The concept of liberty again takes a beating but shines through nonetheless.
boughbw
boughbw 2
Your liberties end where others' noses begin; infectious diseases do not. You have no right to infect others with diseases, much less ones that might be deadly to them. Rights without responsibilities is just freedumb.
srobak
srobak -2
So covid aside - you think that people should be self-contained re-breathers any time they are in public? Say - even 2 years ago? Think before you answer. Because your right to not be infected by other things which can kill you has been violated dozens of times already in your life. Didn't seem to bother you then.
boughbw
boughbw 1
I did not say "your right not to be infected by other things which can kill you," I said "you have no right to infect others." That is a major difference.

There are laws on the books for decades in some states concerning the knowing transmission of AIDS to others. There are lawsuits filed right now concerning COVID-19 transmissions. You are morally obligated not to infect others with this disease even if you are not legally required.

But then you already knew this, right? The social contract obliges us out of the interest of protecting our own rights to protect and respect the rights of others. We are obligated to minimize our capacity to contract and transmit diseases to others with the expectation that they ought to do the same for us. In this case, the only barriers are to those who are women under certain circumstances and to those with certain blood clotting disorders: cost and availability are not a concern.

The converse is worth examining as well: To those who think nothing of protecting the rights of others, there should be no expectation that their own rights be protected where they come into conflict with the rights of others. For example, you might own a gun as is your right. But if you abuse this right in taking away the rights of others, such as by robbing them of their money at gunpoint, you should not expect to have your right to own a gun go uninfringed.

Lastly, I will observe that the rights of those concern to refuse the vaccines has not been taken away. If it so violates their willingness to remain employed that they will not submit to this condition of employment, that is their choice. They can work elsewhere.
srobak
srobak 1
If this was 3 years ago and I have the plain-old-flu and I go to a store and stand next to you and you get sick from my flu and you die - did I violate your right? Should your estate sue mine? Should your family seek criminal charges against me?
Ginabedina
Gina Davis 1
All of these comments!!! To vaxx or not to vaxx… well you are all seeing the results of government be it federal or local telling people what to do. Keep in mind the survival rate is 99.7%. This is bigger than a vaccine.
boughbw
boughbw 0
Bigger than the vaccine? Yes, it is plainly fake news at work, fueling the protests.
srobak
srobak -1
No, it is not fake news.

USPOP: 332,800,000 (census.gov)
USCOVID: 45,300,000 (cdc.gov)

13.6% of population is infected. 1.3 in every 10 people.

USCOVDEAD: 733,000 (cdc.gov)

1.61% of infected die. 98.39% of those infected survive.
0.22% of USPOP die. 99.78% of all people in the US survive.

Simple. Basic. Math.
srobak
srobak 1
Sorry - I was not finished.

(rounding)

3 of every 200 infected die.
1 out of every 500 people die.
srobak
srobak -1
Really? You dipshidiots are downvoting MATH??? No wonder we are in the situation we are in!
williamscottrobertson
Buncha commies and nazis in these FA commenters. Many aren’t Americans, so I can understand I guess. But US citizens not seeing this is a full on fight for liberty is beyond me.

My ancestors fought against federalism and overreach 160 years ago. Their failure to squash it back then is probably the second largest bane to the US only behind the Fed.
realbuffalocalfmother
From what I have heard Mr Rathborne is an unusual case. I refuse to be bullied into anything and consider his judgement to be flawed. But that is his right, just don't look at me as a criminal for not agreeing with him.
mmc7090
mmc7090 1
Vaxholes never learn. Max mandates enforced with the barrel of a gun so lacking. Crash and burn like the 737 programming that killed hundreds.
jimsarushfan
Huck Finn 1
The entire argument is about freedom, freedom to choose whether or not to be vaccinated, freedom to choose as to whether or not to wear a mask. Freedom of choice is granted to women in order to terminate their pregnancy which by the way affects both the father of the child as well as the child him/her self.
avionik99
avionik99 1
And none of these self serving useless Unions are backing the employees! Nearly every union is 100% behind management when it comes to workers that refuse to vaccinate. Now we know the Unions do not care about the plight of workers in America!
avionik99
avionik99 4
Wait, I think there is One pilots Union that has the guts to stand for the people that have made them filthy rich!
boughbw
boughbw 2
Or -- and hear me out -- among most union members, getting vaccinated is no big deal and they oppose those protesting. As it turns out, workplace safety is a big deal to unions. Having unvaccinated employees spreading and possibly killing union members is actually considered a bad thing.
ColinSeftel
What alternative does Boeing have in order to protect its workforce from illness and to minimize the resulting absenteeism?
AlanGlover
Alan Glover 4
Firing hundreds of workers is better than "absenteeism"?
boughbw
boughbw 0
In what world is having employees who refuse to work better than not having them?
srobak
srobak 4
in the same world where the government or any company forcing you to put something you disagree with inside your body.
boughbw
boughbw -2
That makes literally no sense.
srobak
srobak 2
that's exactly my point. thank you.
boughbw
boughbw -3
You have no point. You argued that left is right, up is down, and the sky is falling because of a couple of pokes meaning companies are no longer interested in profit. Boeing and its unions disagree with your non-sense.
Shocker7777
Shocker7777 4
Tell the government to shove it. If more corporations would stand up for what is right the idiots in DC would have no choice but to listen.
ColinSeftel
This is Boeing's mandate. The government did not force them to do it.
srobak
srobak 3
This is false. As a government contractor Boeing is required to have it's employees vaxxed under Executive Order 14042
AlanGlover
Alan Glover 0
It's true. Biden just said it in a speech.
The companies are just using it as cover.
Herbie28
Ivermectin is over looked! becaus big Pharma make no Money on it, to sheep.

Read Interview from Dr. Martin and german Dr. Fühlmich 21Pages engl. Translation. Nürnberger law 1945 Broken many times. No Lawyer in this World like to touch this subject. Virus SAR, Covic 12, Covic 19 Made in a Laboratory They are all Registered with a Number Documents are stored in a Patend Office so the Vaccine!!! (You can't do this with a Natural Virus) Money making Business first.
Don't forget Bill Gate Speak to Dr. Fauci The World Population is rising to 9 Billion, Now we have a chance to correct this by 10 to 15%
Go all ahead and give me thumb down.

Wearing a Mask, You are not getting all your Oxygen breathing in and by Breathing out some Carbon mono, Get stocked on the Mask. This Days, weeks, months no end? and this for our School Children, there will be Health problems in later Years.
aaabobpr
Just get the vaccine already.
srobak
srobak 1
just worry about what you put in your own body and stop worrying about mine already
victorbravo77
That's what she said. But, I digress.
mcut
mcut -9
From the Seattle Times piece: “The COVID-19 vaccines have been approved by the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention [CDC] and the Food and Drug Administration, and are considered by all leading medical authorities to be safe and remarkably effective.”

Besides the fact that many “leading medical experts” (including the estimable Dr. Peter McCullough and his 161-page Curriculum Vitae) do NOT recognize the jabs as “safe and remarkably effective” (and nor do official data from all over the world), it is flagrantly false for the reporter to write that the “vaccines” plural have been approved.

First of all, the CDC does not approve drugs. Second, the FDA does approve and license drugs, but it has not done so for the Pfizer-BioNTech, Moderna, or J&J covid jabs. All three remain under Emergency Use Authorization only. There is no FDA-approved covid vax available in the USA. The fan dance, or smoke and mirrors, or whatever you want to call it, is that the FDA did approve the Comirnaty jab, which is the marketing name for the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine. Still, the point remains that the Comirnaty product IS NOT available in the U.S. You canNOT get an FDA-APPROVED vax for covid in the U.S. at this time or previous to now.

To dig in to the govt-issued details, see: https://www.fda.GOV/emergency-preparedness-and-response/coronavirus-disease-2019-covid-19/comirnaty-and-pfizer-biontech-covid-19-vaccine.

I give credit to the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers union for its statement that it is “absolutely opposed to this mandate.” All these mandates are issued under the one-size-fits-all auspice of “safety” and under the color of Public Health. Many “leading medical experts” will tell you that the jab is contraindicated for those who have had the virus and lived to tell the tale. Those “leading medical experts” who deny and obfuscate about natural and acquired immunity to corona viruses are doing a clown dance. They who say that getting the jab boosts the immunity of the previously infected are literally making it up as they go.
AlanGlover
Alan Glover 6
Finally. The voice of reason.

But still besides the point.

Are we free or wards of the state?
royhunte92
Roy Hunte 4
This rant is not aviation related, take your trash back to Facebook.
mcut
mcut 7
Skilled and experienced workers in the aviation industry are prepared to leave if they are forced to take the shots. Putting common sense and decency aside, is not the institutional knowledge at the nation’s only maker of large jet liners compromised by a wholesale mandate? Does not Boeing have enough challenges without this imposition on its workforce?

This is ruthless enforcement of capricious and authoritarian government edict by proxy, which is the fascist road we’ve been on since the “emergency.” Now it’s happening at hypersonic speed. I don’t know about you, but I’m anti-fascist. It is in all of our best interests that we have a healthy aviation industry, though I suppose that depends on how one avers to define “healthy” and “our.”

P.S. Never been a member of Zuckerbook; never have posted there once.
AlanGlover
Alan Glover 1
You don't have to justify yourself to leftist sc*m.

They reveal themselves every day by refusing to debate facts, using ad hominum attacks with their feelings and deploy the marxist tactics of hate and division.

Some take the bait and more's the pity but we will resist their urge to wards authoritarian compliance at all cost.
jeffinsydney
jeff slack -4
YOU, go into a store; The sign says, No shoes, No shirt, No service.
This comes from the department of health in every state ............ I bet you make sure you are appropriately attired before you go in for your MAGA Big Gulp.

We are not allowed to attend school without the appropriate vaccinations and physicals. I am assuming you did not go to school.

We need a fishing license, a drivers license, 21 to drink in some states, 18 in others.
All of these things are laws.

The vaccine has yet to be made a law and is a condition for employment.

Your protest statements are ridiculous.
Cwillis44
Cwillis44 11
Shoes and shirts go ON your body.

More kids than you think are not vaccinated (with tried and true vaccines) due to EXEMPTIONS.

Licenses are PURCHASED to participate in an activity provided by STATE government.

Age restrictions on alcohol are laws to prevent irresponsible kids from PUTTING a harmfull substance IN their body.

Name one pre-covid, law, restriction, etc... that forces an individual to put something IN their body (without exemption) to perform, or participate, in an activity NOT controlled by government.
AlanGlover
Alan Glover 4
Now, if that isn't an example of an excellent flack for the Norks or the Chicoms, I don't know what is. 😏
AlanGlover
Alan Glover 1
You should slack off on the TDS.

It must be a particular burden to know you are living with at least 80 million voters you think are racist (stupid, divisive, whatever).

Relax.

Be a happy warrior like us and not an oh-so-serious marxist dupe.
garritt
garritt 0
plus another 80 million Americans that think so too
pthomas745
Pa Thomas -6
Enjoy the Herman Cain Awards. You sound like many dead Covid victims.
https://www.reddit.com/r/HermanCainAward/
jetserf
jetserf 4
That is really poor taste.
AlanGlover
Alan Glover 5
Say that to a cancer victim's family about the departed's smoking addiction.

What a sweetheart.
dnorthern
dnorthern 4
Roy boy. Don’t be an ass
AlanGlover
Alan Glover 2
Oo, SOMEONE hates facts.
scottiek
scottiek 3
Pfizer has been approved since August 23rd.

https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-approves-first-covid-19-vaccine
RichardIsbell
Cry me a river. Get vaccinated, quit acting like petulant children.
pthomas745
Pa Thomas -7
Boeing has "71,829 employees in the state (WA)at the end of 2019. In other news,maybe 1 percent of Boeing employees were out today making clown noises. I'm sure Boeing will have no problem replacing those less than 700 employees. 99 percent get vaccinated, and 1 percent get the big headlines.
AlanGlover
Alan Glover 6
The people who make those headlines for you WANT you to think that.

Normal free humans know an unconstitutional edict when they see one.

The fact that the marxist-inspired media have trapped your minds doesn't look good on the compliant majority.

THIS is how you get a Pol Pot, a Stalin, a Hitler or a Mao.

Prepare to be resisted.
jeffinsydney
jeff slack -5
Spot-on!

Natural selection at work.
dnorthern
dnorthern 12
Using your metric, heart failure, COPD, and many cancers are “natural selection”

Those conditions are more often than not, behaviorally driven by choice
AlanGlover
Alan Glover 10
Last year, covid 19 was the third leading cause of death.....if you believe that many died OF covid rather than WITH covid....and there were no cancer or heart disease clocks on CNN.

It is clear that many swallow mainstream narratives whole (see TDS, climate hysteria, championed gender dysphoria, etc.) 😉
boughbw
boughbw -3
So, inside of one year COVID-19 became the third leading cause of death in the United States and you want to pretend it isn't a big deal? Then you lecture others from your throne about their media consumption habits.
Your science is as bad as your media criticism and concepts of democracy. If a person would be alive without having died of COVID-19, then COVID-19 caused their death. This is not complicated, but you have to make it so to fit your disinformed reality.
srobak
srobak 5
I knew a person who fell from a radio tower he was working on and he died. He happened to have been asymptomatically infected with covid at the time (discovered post-mortem). His COD was recorded as covid.

That kind of bs has happened many, many more times than it has not.
srobak
srobak 2
Heart disease and cancer have outpaced covid's annual death rate EVERY YEAR for DECADES.

When the government starts mandating action to curb those massive killers (which are caused by food and drug industries) THEN and ONLY then can they mandate the vax. The fact of the matter is without the existence of co-morbidities (most of which stem from the aforementioned killer classes) covid's death rate would be down below lightning strikes.
srobak
srobak -1
you have been selected for assimilation. have fun with that.
srobak
srobak -1
This is how the whackadoo left has been able to operate so loudly for decades. Now all of a sudden it is a problem?
garritt
garritt 1
if these employees do not want the vac. then they should quit & go away.....they have that choice vax....or...go away....
srobak
srobak 2
ah yes, the "comply with my order" crowd. In shorter words: Dictatorship. Nah - dictators can go away... all of them, up to and certainly including you.
RJBrown409
Randy Brown 1
It’s not about anyone’s health.
It’s about punishing this current regimes political enemies. It’s about putting as many who disagree politically out of work.
If you disagree with the “Powers that Be” you can’t work.
Purely political. No science or health concern at all.
bobkamman
Bob Kamman -2
And these are the people who have to know enough science to build our planes? Well, there are a million women in Texas who would welcome them with their "Choice" signs.
Geldridge
Gary Eldridge -2
A mandate of this type is Hitleristic. The US government will not allow your or your family to sue the govt or pharma companies or your employer if any of these vaccines they force you to take causes you injury or death. Yet they force you to take them or you give up your means of income. According to CDC's website VAERS thousands of people have been injured and or killed by these vaccines. There is risk either way. It should be a personal choice without forced consequences.
boughbw
boughbw 6
Yes. One shudders while recalling how horrifying Hitler's mandated vaccination of Europe was.
srobak
srobak -1
Ah - so you have heard of his T4 program... good. Most folks haven't, or are otherwise ignorant of the lethal injections they performed.
garritt
garritt -1
ha ha ha ha
overpar56
Steve Stein -2
I came here for the misinformation on Covid-19 vaccinations. I was not disappointed.

The anti-vax crowd likes to throw around sheep, Karens, etc to people who got the jab. In Canada, the Ontario Provence has 90% of eligible citizens vaxed and they had a really late start. Are there some refusing? Yes. But 90%?

Americans are a selfish people. You’re not giving up YOUR rights. You are thinking only about yourself. Even if you had (have) Covid and survived, what if you infect someone else? Tough luck on them? Yeah, you’re that transparent.

I lined up for the polio vax in the 60’s. No one complained. Then again, we didn’t have social media as a source of misinformation and distrust in science. You all might try to read more than the headlines and a tweet or Facebook comment.
jimsarushfan
Huck Finn 4
Speaking of sheep ehh
mcut
mcut -5
I found the N*zis!
boughbw
boughbw 3
Yes, because, if anything, the Nazis were known for their ruthless vaccination campaigns.
srobak
srobak -1
In fact - yes. Look up Hitler's T4 program.
boughbw
boughbw 3
6.8 billion doses later and somehow you think this is about killing people rather than inoculating them.
srobak
srobak 4
Noooo... it's about controlling people and ignoring science. Period.
AlanGlover
Alan Glover -1
Uhuh. It's MOST of them.

Doesn't bode well for the future. These anti-liberty pro-mandaters are practicing for their marxist overlords.

Gonna make it way simple for the CCP to take over.
waypoint66
David Rice -4
I too am pro vax, pro mask; however, please note that the vax does not prevent all cases. The vax will help you stay out of the hospital if you do get a breakthrough case, but you should still worry about the cray-cray anti vax crowd. Also, killer? Really? It has a 97% survival rate. Perhaps a different word to describe this unfortunate inconvenience would be more appropriate.
Frosty1025
Frosty1025 3
To David Rice.
Of four family relatives, two got moderna vaccines, two did not. All four caught Covid. All four where treated with monoclonal antibody Iv infusions and ivermectin and they started to feel better within 24 hours. I will take my chances without the so called vaccine and my Gods designed inmune system.
boughbw
boughbw 3
Having a 1 in 33 chance of dying from an illness is actually pretty terrible odds. Perhaps mathematical literacy should come first.
srobak
srobak 2
Speaking of mathematical literacy.... here's some for you.

USPOP: 332,800,000 (census.gov)
USCOVID: 45,300,000 (cdc.gov)

13.6% of population is infected. 1.3 in every 10 people.

USCOVDEAD: 733,000 (cdc.gov)

1.61% of infected die. 98.39% of those infected survive.
0.22% of USPOP die. 99.78% of all people in the US survive.

(rounding)

3 of every 200 infected die.
1 out of every 500 people die.

Simple. Basic. Math.
boughbw
boughbw 1
Technical point: There is no mathematical literacy there.

Why is the death rate declining? It isn't because the disease is less deadly, it is because vaccines have reduced the number of deaths.

-->Do your numbers disaggregate by vaccination status? No, they do not. Why do you think that is? Would it be because it would completely undermine your point if the vaccines reduced the likelihood of death from COVID-19? Why, yes, it totally would. So why do you think you are informed on this issue in choosing to be anti-vax?

The survival rate should not include the entire US population, only those who have had COVID-19 and survived. If I were to say, "Wow, I got really lucky in surviving cancer!" you would totally have a relevant point in observing, "But you didn't have cancer." Surviving the pandemic is not the same as surviving the illness.

Do you have any other relevant sounding but utterly bogus "statistics" to offer?
srobak
srobak 2
Why is the death rate declining: because of herd immunity - mostly due to natural

That being said - I will be happy to post just slightly higher numbers than from before the vax was being administered.

The survival rate IS included because everyone else is including all of the population in their argument to get vaxxed. Sorry - but you cannot have it both ways. If you get to use that number in support of your argument, then I get to use that same number against your argument.

You will notice that I ALSO (and FIRSTLY) included the INFECTED death/survival rate. Pay attention.

This is not a bogus statistic. These are the real statistics.

98.39% of infected people survive. Period.
boughbw
boughbw -1
"Why is the death rate declining: because of herd immunity - mostly due to natural"

See also: snake eating its own tail. Stop believing everything that goes through your mind.
srobak
srobak 1
Stop not realizing the reality of what is happening around, and drinking the koolaid wholesale.
srobak
srobak -1
It doesn't help you stay out of the hospital. Almost 40% of the current cases in the hospital are previously vaxxed, so there is that.
jimsarushfan
Huck Finn 1
fake news alert^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
briansfreeman
Brian Freeman -3
Sometimes I'm rooting for the virus...perhaps it should be re-named the Darwin Virus.
DGR54Rathborne
DGR Rathborne -3
No Comment .

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