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A Closer Look: Transitioning to the next generation 777 and A340

eklendi
 
Building on last Friday's post about unlocking customers to evaluate competing airframer's products, I wanted to look a bit closer at the changes Airbus and Boeing made to develop their respective second generation 777s and A340s. For Boeing, the aircraft maker would evolve the 777-200ER and -300 into the the 777-300ER, -200LR and freighter, while Airbus would take its A340-300 and -200 to become the A340-500 and -600. (www.flightglobal.com) Daha Fazlası...

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dbrooks84
David Brooks 3
Airbus announced that the 340 is dropped from there product line due to no sales in the past 2 years. I think Airbus will more likely talk about the great things the A350 will do if you asked about an A340.

Boeing is looking at upgrades to keep the 777-300ER a best seller.
JCCasebeer
John Casebeer 1
A 340 has been continued for lack of sales. It was never a big success. Initially underpowered and uneconomical.
JCCasebeer
John Casebeer 1
Discontinued, not continued.
jlemon
Jeff Lemon 1
The passenger version of the MD-11 was only ordered by two U.S. airlines: American and Delta. I flew on Delta operated MD-11s many times in first and business class (and also on Swissair in business class) and from a passenger's standpoint, they were just fine.

Then Swissair lost an MD-11 off the coast of eastern Canada with the total loss of all souls on board. It appeared an electrical problem that began in the IFE system propagated into the flight deck causing a catastrophic event.

Both AA and DL quietly began getting rid of their respective MD-11 aircraft, opting instead for new B777s. Bear in mind these MD-11s were not that old.

I've also talked with FedEx pilots who fly the MD-11 and most of them don't like the airplane. Control problems are mentioned in various flight regimes. And FedEx has also lost two MD-11s in landing accidents.
organfreak
Scott Hawthorn 1
The whole comparison is odd, notwithstanding the fact that the A340 has been discontinued.
Wouldn't the more appropriate comparison be between the 777 and the A330, given that the latter is also a two-hole plane?
mayam13
After the advent of A320 all wide bodies are computerised automatics, which the pilots love so much so that, AP failure scares them stiff. If an in-flight-shut down in 777 is followed by an AP 'dis-engage', it is the worst scenario.Whereas in A340 there still will be three engines ticking away whish boosts the confidence of even the run-of-the-mill pilot. The 2009 fatal crash of AF447 should be am eye-opener.The first jet airliner was a Quad-Jet, and every aircraft that crissed the Atlantic for the second world war was four engined.
Mayampurath.J.
Derg
Roland Dent 1
Apart from the joystick thing on the flight deck the A340 is a better machine than any 777 from the passenger viewpoint, the only better machine are the B74s in my opinion. I really hope AB develops the A340 series and stays with four engines. The MBAs in marketing really do not know how to sell the benefits of the A340 to the public. Compared to many airliners the 340 is a "true limo" whilst the rest are like cattle trucks..hahaa
preacher1
preacher1 4
Well, they already made the decision to drop the 340 on account of no sales in 2 years; probably on account of 4 vs 2 engines.
Derg
Roland Dent 1
I suppose the fact that they can now send ETOPS over the N Pole sealed the fate too. Quite a few customers will travel to get the Swiss Air A340 service with the over more local airports eith ETOPS in Europe.
preacher1
preacher1 0
I guess the only new thing commercial flying with 4 engines will be the 47 or 80.
Derg
Roland Dent 0
Wayne may I ask your opinion of the MD-11 for passenger service?
preacher1
preacher1 1
Gotta head for the office. I'll get you in an hour or 2
preacher1
preacher1 0
Sorry 'bout that. Never flew one. Knew some that did on cargo, but not pax and to my knowledge, I never flew on one as a pax. I understand they are based on the DC10 airframe. I guess they were MD's answer to the 727, I dunno, but they haven't been built since 2000
dbrooks84
David Brooks 0
I think the MD-11, a continuation of the DC-10, was a late in introduction and Boeing saw that there was a market for the size and thus they developed the 777. I have not flown on a MD-11 but a number of times as a pax on DC-10s. The 2 engines versus three - well the economics are self evident. I think KLM is the last MD-11 carrier using them for paxs.
preacher1
preacher1 0
I believe you are right. I think FedEx and several of the cargo boys are still using them but they will all transition into 767/777 as they retire them
Derg
Roland Dent 0
My son was on one of KLM's from Schipol to Vancouver and return on a school trip and, had I known, I would not have let him go. Think it put him off for life. Oh well..
StymieHo
Chris Donawho 1
Flew on one with Finnair right after and because Pan Am tanked. A little noisy in the tail, but otherwise, the alcohol tasted the same. Finnair is also a pretty awesome airline to fly on from a passenger standpoint. That said, they could make a Tupolev comfortable if they had to.
JCCasebeer
John Casebeer 1
MD 11 is unpopular with many pilots. It is short on ruddrt especially at lowere speeds requiring assymmetric thrust in turns.

DeltaAirlinesTristar
I think you want to rethink that. I have been flying for 32 years and most of my years on the Tristars. Today the MD-11. The MD-11 is favored actually by many pilots. I have been flying the MD-11 for about 15 years. Still love it. The newer generation pilots have never flown one and wont know the actual experience of flying a real aircraft. Todays aircrafts are way to high tech. The MD-11 is pretty high tech but not like the 777 or many of the others
dbrooks84
David Brooks 1
I agree. In competition with the 777, the economics of the 777-300ER were better than the A340-600.
DeltaAirlinesTristar
I have flown many aircraft in my time but in todays aviation i would go with the 777 any day. I find it to be the most reliable and the most comfy air craft over the A340. All Boeing needs to do is display the new sky interior for the 777 then the A340 will be a plane of the past.
TXCAVU
Given the EU economy and it's tie to Airbus, bet they pull every string possible to keep building the aircraft. We shall see, right?
evbutler
Ev Butler -1
Didn't AB make the decision to drop the 340 from its line?
preacher1
preacher1 1
yeah. No orders for the last two years. About 2 months or so ago.
HunterTS4
Toby Sharp 0
I love how Next Gen makes the 777 and A340 seem so obsolete
preacher1
preacher1 0
?????? Whut 'chu mean boy??????
StymieHo
Chris Donawho 1
hehehe - looks like your 757 experience may as well have been on a Connie to him.
genethemarine
Gene spanos -1
Maybe the USG - FAA will cut the current flight load(s) along with----- the DOD cuts
that are named and in the mix.
Wingscrubber
Wingscrubber -1
This traveller likes having 4 engines. Call me an A340 fan over 777.
And doing the hop accross the pond on a 767 or DC-10 is just miserable.
preacher1
preacher1 0
Man, have you no faith in ETOPS.lol
preacher1
preacher1 0
I know the feeling. I cut my teeth on a 707, but I flew a 757 for nearly 20 years. Due to a superb maintenance program(it got took about as good a care of as AF1) I never lost but 1 engine and that was just starting descent into the house so wasn't any trouble at all, but I have to admit, 2 engines and 2 men on deck took some getting used to.
Wingscrubber
Wingscrubber 0
I know with ETOPs regs a twin is basically just as safe as a quad, but it's just a psychological thing. When I'm out over the middle of the ocean, I just feel better with 4, even though as an engineer I know it doesn't really make much difference, and that the modern widebody twins are probably going to offer me cheaper ticket prices.
StymieHo
Chris Donawho 1
True but they stretch those regs to the max... Imagine 180 minutes on one engine. Three friggin hours watching that dead weight hanging out there on one side or the other.
JoshZ
Josh Zylks 0
I remember seeing an article where the head of Emirates was asking Boeing for an upgraded 777 that could service Dubai to LAX with 50 tons of revenue payload. That seems like quite a stretch for a twin over what the current 777 is capable of.
TXCAVU
Emirates flew their firct 777 DXB to DFW yesterday.

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